Many people touting Pujols as MVP, but.......

[Guest]

If the Cardinals don't make the playoffs, he doesn't deserve it.

I'm a Cardinals fan, and I love Pujols, but I have been a strong opponent for years that if a players teams doesn't make the playoffs, no matter how well that particular player did, he doesn't deserve the MVP because obviously he wasn't that VALUABLE to his team, or they would have made the playoffs. Change it to Most Outstanding Player, then it's different.

But I don't see the Cardinals making the playoffs. I say stick a fork in them, they are done. After that debacle yesterday, blowing the game after hitting 4 home runs off Randy Johnson, then puking up the lead and win, they showed me they have no intentions on going on a winning streak and overtaking the Brewers for the WIld Card. It's sad. That last Brewers series should have been an ingnitor, but instead they come out flat as a pancake against the Astros, and now they lose a game they should have won in horrible fashion. It was cool seeing Stephen Drew hit for the cycle though.

Anyway, if the Cardinals don't make the playoffs, there's no way in my mind that Pujols deserves the Most Valuable Player award.


Agree, disagree???

 

[trevordchi]

It can be argued that Pujols isn't even the most valuable player on his team. Ludwick has more Runs, Home Runs, and RBIs. Pujols is hot right now but does not deserve MVP in my opinion.

I must say that I am very biased. The site of that man makes me want to puke. I lost my voice booing him in Houston last weekend.

 

[pujolsjunkie]

It can be argued that Pujols isn't even the most valuable player on his team. Ludwick has more Runs, Home Runs, and RBIs. Pujols is hot right now but does not deserve MVP in my opinion.

I must say that I am very biased. The site of that man makes me want to puke. I lost my voice booing him in Houston last weekend.

Something to be said for why Ludwick has those numbers all of a sudden - it's because of the protection Pujols is providing him. Only recently has Albert gotten much to hit. He has taken what pitchers have given him all season, which is why he's hitting over .360. Now the power comes out since they finally respect someone else in that lineup. I think the MVP will be between Wright and Braun this time around.

 

[coltsfan23]

If the Cardinals don't make the playoffs, he doesn't deserve it.

I'm a Cardinals fan, and I love Pujols, but I have been a strong opponent for years that if a players teams doesn't make the playoffs, no matter how well that particular player did, he doesn't deserve the MVP because obviously he wasn't that VALUABLE to his team, or they would have made the playoffs. Change it to Most Outstanding Player, then it's different.

But I don't see the Cardinals making the playoffs. I say stick a fork in them, they are done. After that debacle yesterday, blowing the game after hitting 4 home runs off Randy Johnson, then puking up the lead and win, they showed me they have no intentions on going on a winning streak and overtaking the Brewers for the WIld Card. It's sad. That last Brewers series should have been an ingnitor, but instead they come out flat as a pancake against the Astros, and now they lose a game they should have won in horrible fashion. It was cool seeing Stephen Drew hit for the cycle though.

Anyway, if the Cardinals don't make the playoffs, there's no way in my mind that Pujols deserves the Most Valuable Player award.


Agree, disagree???

I think you meant proponent, instead of opponent..

As others have said, I don't think he should be MVP regardless of whether or not the Cardinals make the playoffs.

 

[Guest]

Yeah, Ludwick's having a great season, and a lot of it has to due with Pujols' protecion.

AND this is Ludwick's very first full season in the major leagues. He's never had a full season. And it's only his second season at that.

He's dropped off here lately though.

I would have loved for Luddy to stay hot, the Cardinals make the playoffs, and for him to snag the MVP award. That would have been amazing.

 

[MOFNY]

The MVP class is somewhat weak in both leagues. Pujols deserves it in the NL though. He is clearly the most valuable player to his team. Ryan Braun deserves to be mentioned too.

 

[Frow]

Pujols isn't even close to being an MVP. The only Cardinal that deserves an MVP award would be Tony Larussa for Most Valuable Person. Without him they'd be a cellar dweller like they were suppose to be.

 

[Guest]

Part of my thinking is say Jason Bay would have hit .400, 40 home runs, and had 115 RBI's, and the Pirates finished in 5th place. And yes, I know he isn't on the Pirates anymore, just using that as an example.

How can the MVP be on a last place team?

I know ARod pretty much did it in Texas, and I didn't agree with that either.



I mean, you replace VALUABLE with OUTSTANDING, then I would say yes, Pujols might deserve it. But not Valuable.

 

[pujolsjunkie]

Pujols isn't even close to being an MVP. The only Cardinal that deserves an MVP award would be Tony Larussa for Most Valuable Person. Without him they'd be a cellar dweller like they were suppose to be.

Yeah way to go Tony, you've done nothing but alienate your best prospect, while continuing to act like you invented the game of baseball.

I hate LaRussa. lol

 

[Guest]

Pujols isn't even close to being an MVP. The only Cardinal that deserves an MVP award would be Tony Larussa for Most Valuable Person. Without him they'd be a cellar dweller like they were suppose to be.

Yeah way to go Tony, you've done nothing but alienate your best prospect, while continuing to act like you invented the game of baseball.

I hate LaRussa. lol

LaRussa made a bonehead move the way he handled McClennan yesterday.


My biggest knock on TLR is the way he botches his bullpen year after year.

I hated what he'd always do to Steve Kline. Always put him into games in no win situations. Let other people screw up, then put him in to suffer.

 

[jet0002]

People put too much importance on "if a player's team makes the playoffs" or "if he hits a few more home runs down the stretch". The MVP award is for the WHOLE season not just the last month. That's my same argument with Brandon Webb.

 

[mlbsalltimegreats]

Switch Pujols with any other star player on their team and see that team make a dramatic jump in wins. The Guy makes everyone around him better. If it was anybody else in place of pujols on the Cardinals there would not even be any wild card talk. Pujols is the MVP!!! How in the hell could his stat's not help his team make a push playoff's. He's doing everything he can. All you have to do is take away every teams best player and see who ends up with the worst record.... The cardinals would. Ludwick is lucky he has Pujols on that team or he would not have those stats. JMO

 

[DRav87]

As others have said, I don't think he should be MVP regardless of whether or not the Cardinals make the playoffs.

Bingo!

 

[serving4theking]

1987, Dawson won it for the last place finishing Cubs. I hate to think what the Cards would have looked like this year without Pujols, especially with all the pitching injuries and such.

Contrast that with the Cubs. At various points this year, we were without Ramirez, Soriano, Wood, Marmol...but we were able to maintain 1st place.

Pujols may indeed be the most valuable player for an NL team this year. Additionally, the award doesn't just take into consideration the value a player has been to the team (I know ideally it should) but it looks at the pure numbers. Pujols will have yet another 30+HR, 100+RBI, .300+BA, and possibly 100+RUNS. And he'll possibly end with the highest annual average of his career so far.

As a last thing to throw in there, there may also be a desire to "make things right" from the years when he should have won it if not for Barroid.

 

[Guest]

People put too much importance on "if a player's team makes the playoffs" or "if he hits a few more home runs down the stretch". The MVP award is for the WHOLE season not just the last month. That's my same argument with Brandon Webb.

People ALSO put WAY too much consideration into OFFENSE when voting for the GOLD GLOVE award too.

Doesn't make sense, but it happens.

I love the, 'he doesn't hit enough' argument in voting for the Gold Glove at the catcher spot.

Yadier Molina's Gold Glove worthy, but since he doesn't HIT 30+ home runs a year he doesn't get the award. Makes perfect sense. Lets calculate OFFENSE into a DEFENSIVE award. Perfect sense right??

 

[Codasco07]

If the season ended today, I think Pujols should win the award even though the Cardinals won't be in the playoffs. However, there is still a month left of the season. If a team takes control of the NL West or East behind a great September by a guy who has had a solid season thus far (Wright, Utley, Manny, Webb), then I could certainly see the award going to one of those players. The Cubs really don't have any one standout player who deserves the award because I think they'd be just as good without any one of Ramirez, Soriano, Lee, or Soto. The Cardinals on the other hand would be a completely different team without Pujols. Ludwick would not have been an All Star and Chris Duncan would have had to play first base for the whole year. Especially if Pujols wins the batting title, I think he should also get the MVP.

 

[All The Hype]

There are two things that make Pujols stand so far above Braun, Wright, Ludwig, and anyone else that might deserve a shot at the award. The first thing is that he is batting .360, which happens to be about 60 points higher than any of the other three guys. They all have almost identical homerun and RBI totals (this alone should be enough for the MVP).

The second thing is that Pujols has nearly twice as many walks as he has strikeouts. This is hard to do. Very hard to do. He is the best hitter in the NL by far this year and he deserves the award for keeping his team in the chase if nothing else.

 

[Guest]

I don't mind at all if anyone disagrees with me. That's why I started the thread, was to get everyones thoughts on the matter. Hell, I love Pujols, and am glad he's having a monster season. The Cardinals needed it.

I just wanted to get my point across that I'm not going to just be a 'homer' and change my thoughts on the matter just because a player from my favorite team may be in a position that I have never been a fan of and never will be. I will always stand by if your team doesn't make the playoffs, then you don't deserve the Most VALUABLE player, because if you were THAT valuable, you could have gotten your team to the playoffs. You're so valuable that you can't even get your team to win one of TWO available playoff spots? Can't win the division or even the Wild Card? Doesn't seem that valuable to me. Just how I feel about it.




But I do agree with the poster who said the voters might 'make it up' to Pujols over Bonds winning year after year when he was deserving too.


Most of you do have valid points though.

 

[predatorkj]

I just do not understand how a lot of you guys think just because one player cannot single handedly lead his team to the playoffs that he is not an mvp.I don't think you guys understand that baseball is a team sport.Unless Albert starts playing all nine positions and throws a few complete games and maybe even a no-hitter then you guys can't use that arugement.The Cardinals could be a last place team and it doesn't matter.Sure a player can help a team win but only in small amounts.Pujols could hit a homerun every time he gets to the plate and record an out every time the ball touches his hands but it doesn't mean the cardinals will ever win any games.It just gives them a better chance.And for his part he is providing them with a better chance.There is really nothing more you could ask.

And thats why you go on stats to determine who is the mvp.Not necessarily the teams placement in the playoffs or if they ever reach it.Arugement over as far as thats concerned.

As far as him being the mvp all year long...I am not sure that he is going to win but he may and if he does not he will certainly be in the top three.There are a few other players that have really helped their team this year.

 

[mlbsalltimegreats]

I just do not understand how a lot of you guys think just because one player cannot single handedly lead his team to the playoffs that he is not an mvp.I don't think you guys understand that baseball is a team sport.Unless Albert starts playing all nine positions and throws a few complete games and maybe even a no-hitter then you guys can't use that arugement.The Cardinals could be a last place team and it doesn't matter.Sure a player can help a team win but only in small amounts.Pujols could hit a homerun every time he gets to the plate and record an out every time the ball touches his hands but it doesn't mean the cardinals will ever win any games.It just gives them a better chance.And for his part he is providing them with a better chance.There is really nothing more you could ask.

And thats why you go on stats to determine who is the mvp.Not necessarily the teams placement in the playoffs or if they ever reach it.Arugement over as far as thats concerned.

As far as him being the mvp all year long...I am not sure that he is going to win but he may and if he does not he will certainly be in the top three.There are a few other players that have really helped their team this year.

Very well said predatorkj. I just want to add one more thing. It's Carlos Delgado that has been the most valuble player for the Met's and not because he has more Homeruns than anybody on his team but because most of his hits/Homeruns have won more games for the Met's than any other player. Wright is good but it's not a popularity contest it's an Mvp. Again JMO