HOF debate: Billy Wagner

MansGame · Jan 11, 2013

I think he has a shot but it'll take a LONG time for him... I'm calling he gets in between years 10-14

markakis8 · Jan 11, 2013

WaxPax said:
I will quote myself "...a Closer's job is to save games"....Period end of discussion, does it matter how it is done? A K is an out, same as a 4-3 ground ball...the other stats are fluff.

As far as Smith, when he retired he was the all time Saves leader, he should not be penalized because others passed him since....

I'm not saying Lee Smith doesn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. I'm arguing Billy Wagner does.

Super Mario · Jan 11, 2013

No.

No.

No.

No.

Does anyone ever look at the name 'Billy Wagner' and think 'Hall of Fame'? No. There's your answer.

WaxPax · Jan 11, 2013

If Wagner goes in Franco should too.....Franco not even being on the ballot anymore because of getting less than 5% of the vote does not bode well for Wagner

markakis8 said:
I'm not saying Lee Smith doesn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. I'm arguing Billy Wagner does.

markakis8 · Jan 11, 2013

WaxPax said:
If Wagner goes in Franco should too.....Franco not even being on the ballot anymore because of getting less than 5% of the vote does not bode well for Wagner

Again, Franco was no where near as dominant a pitcher as Billy Wagner. WHIP was 1.333 and he as lucky to strike any one out when he pitched.

I understand you think that saves is the only important stat for a closer (I think you're wrong, but you seem fixated on that notion). But the writers won't just look at the saves when it comes to Billy Wagner.

It might take 10-15 years, but I think Billy Wagner will get in.

Bob Loblaw · Jan 11, 2013

He was dominant at what he did for a long time. He was imposing and batters feared him. I would say yes, based on those criteria. Plus, he was a nice guy when I met him.

klute14 · Jan 11, 2013

Super Mario said:
No.

No.

No.

No.

Does anyone ever look at the name 'Billy Wagner' and think 'Hall of Fame'? No. There's your answer.

Um, I do (raises hand)

markakis8 · May 19, 2013

Sorry for the random bump. I was searching for a post I made about Mo Rivera and I thought it was interesting that I started a thread about Wagner's HOF chance 3 years apart. Here is the post from 3 years ago:

http://www.freedomcardboard.com/forum/baseball/54560-hof-discussion-billy-wagner.html

I still say he has a decent shot if Sutter and Goose made it.

Gwynn545 · May 19, 2013

markakis8 said:
Sorry for the random bump. I was searching for a post I made about Mo Rivera and I thought it was interesting that I started a thread about Wagner's HOF chance 3 years apart. Here is the post from 3 years ago:

http://www.freedomcardboard.com/forum/baseball/54560-hof-discussion-billy-wagner.html

I still say he has a decent shot if Sutter and Goose made it.

The saddest thing about reading that old thread is how many FCB members are gone now... wow....

joey12508 · May 19, 2013

I think there are few who should get in ahead of him. lee smith being one. some similar john franco sparky lyle all very good but not hof imo.

Waxov · May 19, 2013

after '10 why did he not pitch again??

ThoseBackPages · May 19, 2013

XXXX that guy. he's a XXXXing hillbilly who doesnt care about the game.

markakis8 · May 19, 2013

Waxov said:
after '10 why did he not pitch again??

Just wanted to retire. Many teams tried to persuade him but he had no desire to play. He probably could've pitched another 2-3 years based off his last year in Atlanta.

SamHell · May 19, 2013

He is an intriguing candidate for sure. The Hall's record of putting in relievers is spotty with no obvious criteria unlike other positions(300 wins, 500 HR's etc). What really impresses me about him is that he was a natural right hander.

sportscardtheory · May 19, 2013

I think Billy Wagner makes it. Definitely not first or second ballot, but he could sneak in in a slow year without any good candidates. He was far more dominant than most know. If he would have pitched 97 more innings in his career, he would hold the record for strikeouts per-9 innings. The thing I think of when I think of Wagner is sheer dominance. Although Smith and Franco have more saves, they weren't nearly as dominant as Wagner was. He's easily a top-6 all-time relief pitcher, right up there with Mo, Hoffman, Eck, Gossage and Sutter... and his WHIP is second only to Mo.

markakis8 · May 19, 2013

sportscardtheory said:
I think Billy Wagner makes it. Definitely not first or second ballot, but he could sneak in in a slow year without any good candidates. He was far more dominant than most know. If he would have pitched 97 more innings in his career, he would hold the record for strikeouts per-9 innings. The thing I think of when I think of Wagner is sheer dominance. Although Smith and Franco have more saves, they weren't nearly as dominant as Wagner was. He's easily a top-6 all-time relief pitcher, right up there with Mo, Hoffman, Eck, Gossage and Sutter... and his WHIP is second only to Mo.

Completely agree with everything you said. I think he gets in on a slow year a la Sutter and Goose.

heavy_hitter · May 19, 2013

My only high end Wagner:

klute14 · May 19, 2013

heavy_hitter said:
My only high end Wagner:

Is that card available?

uniquebaseballcards · May 19, 2013

A knock against Wagner is that Rivera's WAR was about TWICE that of Wagner's after 16 seasons. Not that WAR is everything, but its interesting nonetheless.

predatorkj · May 19, 2013

heavy_hitter said:
My only high end Wagner:

And as your name implies...you hit quite heavily...

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