Biogenesis founder testifying against players; A-Rod, Braun etc to be suspended

My thing is how is ARod doing anything proof against/for Braun? People are using ARod's trying to destroy the records as evidence against everyone.

A_Pharis said:

ESPN is really dancing around this report. They are pretty direct when they come to the accusations against ARod, but, with Braun, they very loosely use "a connection".

I agree with those saying that all this Bosch did was agree to cooperate. People are just assuming that means "agreeing to Braun being guilty". Until he talks, there's no telling what "cooperating" will reveal.

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Do you feel like ESPN also has an ax to grind with Braun? They leaked his info before it was legally allowed, and then he got off of the accusations ESPN helped make. Seems like they'd like a second chance to run him aground.

They really like naming him and showing footage of him every time they mention "players using PEDs". ESPN isn't stupid - they're just wording everything in a way that nothing is new beyond Bosch agreeing to cooperate. Seriously, nothing has been said beyond that. For all we know, he's going to "cooperate" by backing up Braun.

No Cardinals on the list so far. Good.


And as for Braun, I think where there's smoke, there's bound to be fire. This isn't the first, maybe not even the second base time, that his name's came up.

What if Albert's implicated? How would that go over? You think all the ARod attention would deflect to him?



And for the record, I don't really care about any of this.

Thanks Jose Canseco!!!

hive17 said:

Do you really not understand why a fan of the team of one of the bigger names is taking this personally? Really?

Also, A-Rod buying up the records is circumstantial evidence.

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LOLOL

No, I don't understand it. It's a FN game. We all love it. Cheaters suck. If there are angels using, I hope they get caught. Screw them.

I don't understand homers or people that protect a loser, because they know him, went to school with him, or they guy plays on their team.

A loser is a loser, on my team or not. Protect your family, protect your best friends, not some guy that couldnt give 2 shtts about you or me.

This is what I have learned tonight.


If the player is still great, fans protect him.

If it's arod or a guy making 20 mil, who is finished, fans hope they can viod the contract.


Gotta love it.

Screw honesty, level playing field, and doing it the right way.

It's all about my team winning. Pretty typical for our times.


LOL


IT'S A GAME,

jrinne said:

I guess all you have to do is get a note book, write some names down, dollar amounts and we can call that evidence.

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The list in the notebook is only one document the public has seen. ESPN's Outside the Lines obtained that and showed it publically.
ESPN says several official documents have been seized, that could include actual receipts and phone records. Plus documentation from company computers were recovered.
There are also several other so-far-unnamed players who are identified by a code number that will be revealed.

And it's not just Bosch talking. At least two other former clinic associates have spoken to MLB investigators, as well as an agent who brokered the alleged deals between Bosch and the players.

People should not be dismissing the investigation as a witch hunt, or a weak case with a crook's word and a hand-written list as the only evidence.

Austin said:

Unfortunately, as long as players will continue to be morons and take PEDs, despite knowledge of MLB's rules and testing, these investigations will continue.
It blows my mind that some players are still stupid enough to take the chance of being caught. And that they would use a clinic that knows the players' names, instead of buying the PEDs anonymously through someone else who can't be linked back to them.
I have no sympathy for the players, if they are guilty.

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II dont think they are being moronic when it comes to the mlb testing, bc mlb testing is basically a joke. Not too many of these guys actually get caught through the testing, in fact, you have to be a moron to actually fail one of those tests. You can easily be on a powerful cycle and pass that test. It isnt hard at all.

At least they're not breaking home run records and shattering the dreams of children, like Bonds, Sosa, and Mcguire did.

e_t_f84 said:

At least they're not breaking home run records and shattering the dreams of children, like Bonds, Sosa, and Mcguire did.

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PEDs or not, those were some if the most amazing times as a fan. No children were harmed while that was happening, nor what became of it. I'd take 1998 every year

Ryan

RStadlerASU22 said:

No children were harmed while that was happening

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I was.:sad:

e_t_f84 said:

I was.:sad:

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You are not alone. Many were hurt, when they found out their heroes were cheating pieces of crap.

gmsieb said:

You are not alone. Many were hurt, when they found out their heroes were cheating pieces of crap.

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Let me reword that a lil, disappointed maybe, hurt no. I was still in my late teenage years, a baseball player and enjoyed every part of it and couldn't wait for the highlights. I grew up w McGwire at spring training down the road from me at Scottsdale Community College as a skinny A, if you thought he or any of them were free of andro or other types of PEDs during this whole era and needed some Mitchell report, I'd say you were wearing blinders. That's just my opinion. Once that era ended say in 03 I'd say anyone using under the current guidelines I feel different about and say they would be foolish. But again if you were hurt watching them, I say really? The way they handled themselves in front of congress etc was embarrassing but still enjoyed the era when they played

Ryan

gmsieb said:

This doesnt argue my point or make yours. You said "So, yeah, it's not like Bosch has any reason to tell MLB whatever it wants to hear."

Which came across to me, that you were saying, bosch would be lying. I may have misunderstood you, but that's how I read it. I was just stating, thats if he was lying, and their was no story, why would arod be buyng the records. There wouldnt be anything, if it's all lies.

That's my take.

I hope all that are guilty of using, get whats coming to them.
I also hope, I have none of them on my fantasy teams.

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I think at this point Bosch will tell MLB whatever they want to hear so they'll drop the lawsuit against him.

Arod is an admitted steroid user and never gained my trust back from that.

Braun would have been a convicted user but got off on a mistake by a sample collector who, up to that point, had no blemishes to his name. Braun, in my eyes and most, is a user and got off because of a mistake.

Arod trying to buy the documents back doesn't surprise me at all and like I mentioned other people (notably celebrities) try to buy back their indiscretions all the time or pay to keep them a secret.

I don't think him doing that is going to miraculously change anyone's perception or opinion about him and if anything just adds fuel to their opinion.

But what exactly were the documents he was trying to buy? Just papers with his name on it or actual invoices and purchase orders?

Bosch might not have anything other than a piece of lined paper with Arod's name on it but to keep good with MLB he'll say whatever they want him to.

Everything I've read so far about Bosch's records and documents say there is nothing more than names and numbers and MLB will have a hard time trying to suspend players with what he has.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that, while I absolutely believe that Braun, Arod and those guys (possibly aside from Gio) were using how can MLB try to retroactively suspend them for 100 games based off reportedly weak documentation and the word of a guy who has everything to gain by cooperating with MLB?

Austin said:

The list in the notebook is only one document the public has seen. ESPN's Outside the Lines obtained that and showed it publically.
ESPN says several official documents have been seized, that could include actual receipts and phone records. Plus documentation from company computers were recovered.
There are also several other so-far-unnamed players who are identified by a code number that will be revealed.

And it's not just Bosch talking. At least two other former clinic associates have spoken to MLB investigators, as well as an agent who brokered the alleged deals between Bosch and the players.

People should not be dismissing the investigation as a witch hunt, or a weak case with a crook's word and a hand-written list as the only evidence.

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The article I read said MLB has paid at least 1 of the 2 associates and that all have been offered "deals".

It wouldn't be unheard of for a drs office to have phone records with them contacting patients.

I'm not writing this off as a witch hunt. I am sure that like everything else MLB has done with regards to ped's.. They will booger this up good. If MLB could employee some people who didn't run to the media every 12 seconds they could take their time and build rock solid cases and nip this crap in the bud.

vwnut13 said:

There are still a few names yet to be released.


I wouldn't be surprised if Machado was one of them. Machado and Rodriguez are friends. They work out together in the offseason. A Miami product.

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If anyone from the Orioles it would be Valencia.

"If ya ain't cheatin', ya ain't tryin'!" Isn't that the old NASCAR saying?

People need to stop acting so outraged over professional athletes taking performance enhancing drugs.

Pro athletes cheat. It's just the way it is. They've always done it, and they always will. It'll never stop, as long as technology keeps advancing.

Stop acting shocked and appalled please.

And I hate how people always play the 'think of the kids' card.

I'm of the belief that if you, as a parent, are worried that a professional athlete taking performance enhancing drugs is going to make a huge impact on your child, then clearly you're not doing your job as a parent. Kids should be taught to not put these people on a pedestal, and to realize they're human, and have poor judgement sometimes. That they're not Gods. If you have a kid and he's crushed by this, then you should have done a better job explaining things to him/her ahead of time.


Just my opinion.

Super Mario said:

"If ya ain't cheatin', ya ain't tryin'!" Isn't that the old NASCAR saying?

People need to stop acting so outraged over professional athletes taking performance enhancing drugs.

Pro athletes cheat. It's just the way it is. They've always done it, and they always will. It'll never stop, as long as technology keeps advancing.

Stop acting shocked and appalled please.

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Yeah but Sam, how are some people going to get the point across that they are so much more morrally superior than the rest of us? If they can't turn their noses up and point out pergect they are by comparing themselves to people they don't know, what do they have in life?