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Brian Gray Sues the Industry Summit

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BBCgalaxee

Well-known member
Sep 9, 2011
6,475
59
I have to ask... If this is true, why wouldn't your customers give his products a try? You are proof to them that there are profits here and if they are pricey, no more so than TTT or 5 Star... If you say no to expensive Topps products and carry pricey Leaf instead and let your customers know you are doing it because it provides better value to them and better resale prices, then they should be all for it.

.

I don't have enough people who can or would drop $200-$500 on a PACK of cards.

This also means I can't carry popular stuff like exquisite flawless.

At least in my store, once a box tops $109 or pack tops $100, it's EXTREMELY hard me to move it.


The most expensive leaf products I carry are the draft ones because the big amount of autos you get every pack.



Sent from my HTCONE using Freedom Card Board mobile app
 

sportscardtheory

Active member
Aug 16, 2008
8,461
2
Buffalo, New York
I see what's going on now. The "big wig" license-holding companies got together and strong-armed the Industry Summit (probably stated they wouldn't show up if they didn't get their way) to exclude companies lacking a major license, meaning Leaf and companies like Leaf get pushed out. It's a tactic to stifle their competition. Shame on Topps/Panini/Upper Deck and whoever else did this and shame on the Industry Summit for letting it happen. The "Industry Summit" has lost ALL credibility in my eyes and should be boycotted and/or spoken out against by trading card hobbyists and retailers everywhere.
 
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sportscardtheory

Active member
Aug 16, 2008
8,461
2
Buffalo, New York
Think about baseball alone. The ONLY companies that can represent our baseball card hobby at the so called "Industry Summit" are Topps and Panini, who can't even put logos on their baseball cards anyway. What kind of "INDUSTRY Summit" picks and chooses FOR us what we are to see on our retailers' shelves. It's corporate greed and shadiness at it's finest. This Isaacson guy should be ashamed of himself and/or change the name of his summit to the "Strong Arm of Corporate Influence on the Hobby Summit".
 
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Bill Menard

New member
Aug 26, 2008
3,421
0
I don't have enough people who can or would drop $200-$500 on a PACK of cards.

This also means I can't carry popular stuff like exquisite flawless.

At least in my store, once a box tops $109 or pack tops $100, it's EXTREMELY hard me to move it.


The most expensive leaf products I carry are the draft ones because the big amount of autos you get every pack.



Sent from my HTCONE using Freedom Card Board mobile app

I may have been so long winded I missed getting my point across... Put leaf products on your shelf instead of Topps IF you truly believe they are a great product and a better offering to your customers for the money. If it's true, they will buy them and word of mouth will carry the change across town to other shops, across state lines and then countries. Soon Topps will have to change their business strategies because of the movement you start in your shop.
 

sportscardtheory

Active member
Aug 16, 2008
8,461
2
Buffalo, New York
Hey Brian, in the case that this doesn't work out in your favor, you should start your OWN summit (or hobby event) that ANY UNLICENSED card manufacturer may attend, and blow theirs out of the water.
 

sportscardtheory

Active member
Aug 16, 2008
8,461
2
Buffalo, New York
Apparently, Brian Price and In The Game can't get ahold of the IS runner now. Leaf, ITG, TriStar and whomever else should band together and create an "Unlicensed Industry Summit" if this lawsuit doesn't pan out. Our hobby isn't owned exclusively by Topps and Panini. Screw them.
 

jimmyjam1973

Active member
Aug 9, 2008
6,859
3
Schertz, TX
Gotta love the "topps screws everyone" talk. If you think they're ripping you off, then don't buy their products. If you think they're redemption process sucks, don't redeem the cards, sell them (like I do), and let it be someone else's headache. Myself, I've never touched a Leaf product. Most of the designs are very nice, but I don't think that the value of resale is there (but that is just me).

I will say the whole Johnny Manziel fiasco last year was VERY shady to say the least. BG might not have paid "Johnny *********", but you can better believe he got paid somehow. No way does he sign thousands of items out of the goodness of his heart. And the way BG came off on the ESPN interview made him look very bad.

That being said, the entire industry has been out of hand ever since UD released 2003 Exquisite at $500 a PACK. Since then, the floodgates have opened. Look at the prices of "packs":

Flawless - $2500
Inception - $500
Leaf Ichiro - $500
Five Star - $325
Leaf Presidential Cut (can't remember the real name) - $1500
UD Tiger Woods (think over $1K)

99% of us have can not afford this "hobby" when pack can sell for 3-4X a car payment. And let me say this before you think it......yes then buy singles and let someone else gamble hoping to get their money pack on the pack or at least re-coop 75-80% of what they spent. Almost everyone who opened that Presidential stuff lost BIG time. Unless you pulled a Washington, Lincoln, or Kennedy, you pretty much threw $800-$1000 out the window.
 

Erich

Active member
Aug 26, 2008
4,453
0
Anywhere Delta goes.
Well for starters, all of the black eyes he has given to the hobby through his terrible business practices.

You gotta come up with something better than this.

Having pictures of the Jersey's he is cutting up on the back of the card, having a patch registry, waiting no longer than a couple of weeks for a redemption, yeah these are all awful and terrible business practices.

Why don't you take the hard on you got for BG and plug your pie hole with it.
 

SteelBrad

New member
Mar 2, 2013
820
0
You gotta come up with something better than this.

Having pictures of the Jersey's he is cutting up on the back of the card, having a patch registry, waiting no longer than a couple of weeks for a redemption, yeah these are all awful and terrible business practices.

Why don't you take the hard on you got for BG and plug your pie hole with it.

Zing!

/no sarcasm
 

ballerskrip

New member
Aug 7, 2008
11,531
0
Chicago Area
Well for starters, all of the black eyes he has given to the hobby through his terrible business practices.

Sam, some might say that your personal feelings get the better of you.....You consistently Trash Leaf over and over and over again. What did BG do? Kick your dog? Someone asked you what Leaf has done and you reply with a vague, laughable response. You can do better, right? You are coming off as a 16 year who just wants to scream and yell, but aren't really sure why they are screaming and yelling.
 

Wes

OG
Administrator
I see what's going on now. The "big wig" license-holding companies got together and strong-armed the Industry Summit (probably stated they wouldn't show up if they didn't get their way) to exclude companies lacking a major license, meaning Leaf and companies like Leaf get pushed out. It's a tactic to stifle their competition. Shame on Topps/Panini/Upper Deck and whoever else did this and shame on the Industry Summit for letting it happen. The "Industry Summit" has lost ALL credibility in my eyes and should be boycotted and/or spoken out against by trading card hobbyists and retailers everywhere.

Exactly, classic big business practice. Predatory pressure.
 

ballerskrip

New member
Aug 7, 2008
11,531
0
Chicago Area
Think about baseball alone. The ONLY companies that can represent our baseball card hobby at the so called "Industry Summit" are Topps and Panini, who can't even put logos on their baseball cards anyway. What kind of "INDUSTRY Summit" picks and chooses FOR us what we are to see on our retailers' shelves. It's corporate greed and shadiness at it's finest. This Isaacson guy should be ashamed of himself and/or change the name of his summit to the "Strong Arm of Corporate Influence on the Hobby Summit".

This is truly sad. I was honestly looking forward to this years summit, and truthfully, interested to see what major guest Leaf was going to bring this year. I believe they have had Carmen Electra, Dennis Rodman, and Frank Thomas....all who signed Autographs for everyone in attendance.

Topps and Upper Deck will turn their noses up and 80% of the people there, and have "super duper mvp only" sessions. YAY!
 

sportscardtheory

Active member
Aug 16, 2008
8,461
2
Buffalo, New York
And you're point? If I don't want to wait for 6 month, a year, 2 years, and someone else does, let them redeem it. Might want to get off your "noble" high horse.

High horse? lol What on earth are you talking about. I'm on high horse because I talk openly about Topps' crappy redemption process that you yourself have expressed is garbage. Get real. Why don't you "fight" for someone or something that deserves your energy instead of "fighting" for a company that doesn't give a rat's ass about you and will lie to you to get your money.
 

sportscardtheory

Active member
Aug 16, 2008
8,461
2
Buffalo, New York
Gotta love Topps apologists. You don't have to love or even like Leaf products, but at least they aren't committing fraud like inserting redemptions in their products for cards that will NEVER be made and allowing said redemptions to change hands on an open market only for someone to eventually be left holding the bag while idiots say things like 'Hey, it's not MY problem.'
 
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matfanofold

Active member
Aug 10, 2008
7,645
1
Let me preface this by saying my opinion on LEAF & BG is right in the middle. He has done some really good things and some really bad, if need be I could list the specifics but to save time let us just agree that both have come about over the years. Having said that, I am in no way biased one way or the other so I am going to look at this from a simple and logical standpoint.

1. If LEAF/BG has reason and/or proof that there is a real conspiracy for keeping him out being in whole or part perpetrated by any of his competition through influence then I think he has every right to sue.

2. If keeping him out can and will cost his business money, and that can be proven, and in deliberate action against him for that sole reason, then I think he is in the right.

3. If he has no real proof of anything other than they simply do not want him there, then he should just suck up his but hurt and move on. I could care less if he has a legal right to be there, THEY DO NOT WANT YOU THERE. It is just as pathetic as calling, crying, and begging the girl who dumped you to take you back. Again, this only pertains to the situation where the banning was simply due to the proprietor of the summit simply not wanting him there, with no proof, suspicion, or known intent of deliberate financial harm on their part.

In the end, BG can do what he wants, but if this is nothing more than a "I am but hurt you will not let me come" thing then he should just let it go and keep doing what he is doing. However, if he has proof this is something more, something deliberate to hold him back as a competitor in the card business, then I think he should fight. Anyway, I am not really talking legalities here, just personal opinion.
 

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