How much do you think is a fair price on what to expect for this card? 1/1........

sportscardtheory · Jul 6, 2015

Lancemountain said:
You admit that what you did was wrong, you admit that you cheated the very website that facilitated the sale of your item. You don't care, that's great. You owned it and that's fine. The argument in this thread is the mouthbreathers like sportscardtheory who are trying to legitimize the act that you admit was wrong.

I don't care what any of you do, just don't try and legitimize it. Own that you are stealing from the website that sold your card and go about your day.

Gee, what a class act. Calling people names because you disagree with them. Hey wait, you broke this site's TOS, which according to your logic, is breaking the law! LOL I'm calling the cops on you!

predatorkj · Jul 6, 2015

Dilferules said:
Well, I appreciate your brevity.

Maybe somebody else would have ended up buying it and ebay would have been paid, it's not a certainty that it never would have sold. The "well they wouldn't have gotten any money anyway so it's okay" argument is similar to what's used to justify pirating movies or music, and the court would certainly see that as stealing.

Your scenario is changing, though. At first you gave an example of a buyer finding the item on ebay then messaging you through ebay to negotiate, and his best price only worked for you if you didn't have to pay ebay FVF. Above you make it seem like they already knew you from over here and happened to see something you were selling on ebay, then just contacted you through this board to negotiate and you settled on a price. That would be a real gray area and it's tough to say...they only saw the card because of ebay so they should get their cut...hey I don't have to have the answers for every single situation to have an opinion. It'd be against ebay rules though since it's "cancelling a listing to sell to a buyer who found the item on ebay".

Personally I never offer to buy something off ebay and I rarely sell but when I do I do not entertain off-ebay offers. Honestlly I'm just trying to make the point that not paying a company for service they provided is a form of stealing, and I'd have less of a problem with somebody admitting it and saying they don't care because they are going to make a sale however they can than with somebody who for some reason can't see that it's wrong. I mean really if you owned ebay you wouldn't think it was stealing for somebody to use your service then cut you out of the FVF?

My argument is not at all that any item must be sold on ebay once it's listed. It just must be sold on ebay if that's where the buyer finds it, because ebay's services were used to make it happen. If you list an item on ebay then make a sale thread here and sell it through the sales thread, not even ebay would think they should get money for that. They would not have anything at all to do with the sale.

When you list an item, you pay a fee. They have been paid all they are guaranteed to be paid. If they want to really say to sellers that they can't end auctions early, they need to either take the option away or they need to freeze your account for doing so excessively. You really aren't mandated to complete a sale through eBay. I get the point being made. But if you say it's stealing because you got the exposure but didn't pay for said exposure, then what's the listing fee for?

I don't do off eBay deals either(done it only for additional items not on ebay as a guy had a lot of Bagwells he was looking to unload that weren't listed yet) as it can really get you burned.

Dilferules · Jul 6, 2015

predatorkj said:
When you list an item, you pay a fee. They have been paid all they are guaranteed to be paid. If they want to really say to sellers that they can't end auctions early, they need to either take the option away or they need to freeze your account for doing so excessively. You really aren't mandated to complete a sale through eBay. I get the point being made. But if you say it's stealing because you got the exposure but didn't pay for said exposure, then what's the listing fee for?

I don't really know how it can be more clear that they are really saying to sellers they can't end auctions early to sell to somebody that found the item on ebay than it being very specifically worded as such in their rules, which sellers agree to follow when they use ebay. You are right that you aren't mandated to complete a sale through ebay...if the person didn't find it on ebay. I mean it's right there in their rules, I don't know how it could be more clear. To say that's it's not really a rule because they don't have a system in place to automatically stop it is like saying it's not really against the law to drink and drive because not every car has one of those breathalizer things where it won't start unless you blow clean. Or it's not really against the law to steal from a store if they don't have one of those theft detector things at the door like Wal-Mart has. I think there's not an automatic suspension for excessive auctions ended early because it'd create more problems than it solves, like if you listed all your cards then took them to a card show and sold a big lot of them so you had to end a bunch of listings early. That's not against ebay rules and I don't see how it'd be considered stealing.

The listing fee is simply the minimum fee ebay is going to get out of you, and through their pricing structure they decided for whatever reason to go with listing and FVF rather than just listing or just FVF, it doesn't really matter why. I can flip the question around and ask that if the FVF is not for the massive easy exposure to millions of people that ebay gives (and that they pay employees and for advertising and bandwidth and physical office space to provide), then what is it for? ebay doesn't really provide anything tangible, their platform for exposing your merchandise is their product, and by circumventing FVF people are using that product without paying ebay's agreed-upon price.

predatorkj · Jul 6, 2015

Dilferules said:
I don't really know how it can be more clear that they are really saying to sellers they can't end auctions early to sell to somebody that found the item on ebay than it being very specifically worded as such in their rules, which sellers agree to follow when they use ebay. You are right that you aren't mandated to complete a sale through ebay...if the person didn't find it on ebay. I mean it's right there in their rules, I don't know how it could be more clear. To say that's it's not really a rule because they don't have a system in place to automatically stop it is like saying it's not really against the law to drink and drive because not every car has one of those breathalizer things where it won't start unless you blow clean. Or it's not really against the law to steal from a store if they don't have one of those theft detector things at the door like Wal-Mart has. I think there's not an automatic suspension for excessive auctions ended early because it'd create more problems than it solves, like if you listed all your cards then took them to a card show and sold a big lot of them so you had to end a bunch of listings early. That's not against ebay rules and I don't see how it'd be considered stealing.

The listing fee is simply the minimum fee ebay is going to get out of you, and through their pricing structure they decided for whatever reason to go with listing and FVF rather than just listing or just FVF, it doesn't really matter why. I can flip the question around and ask that if the FVF is not for the massive easy exposure to millions of people that ebay gives (and that they pay employees and for advertising and bandwidth and physical office space to provide), then what is it for? ebay doesn't really provide anything tangible, their platform for exposing your merchandise is their product, and by circumventing FVF people are using that product without paying ebay's agreed-upon price.

Didn't say it wasn't in the rules. It is and we know that. But unlike your other comparisons, there is no penalty. I hate to say it but a rule w/o enforcement is pretty much meaningless.

As for your statement on FVF's...that's my point. If eBay really wants to do something about this, they could. It's their loss not to. Instead of FVF's they could just charge a fee based on your listing price which would me more in line with the FVF's, but up front. What are you going to do? Stop selling on eBay? Probably not. The fact that they charge twice makes me wonder if the FVF is the exposure fee or the listing fee is. Or both? You'd probably tell me it doesn't matter either way but I think it does.

Dilferules · Jul 6, 2015

predatorkj said:
I hate to say it but a rule w/o enforcement is pretty much meaningless.

I don't think we're going to find much common ground because I feel way differently about that. I think from reading other people's posts apparently I'm overly sensitive about things that I perceive as people trying to "work the system" or "get one over on somebody/some company". I work at a job where people are constantly trying to do that and I think it's made me...maybe not more against it than I would be otherwise, but more likely to be a jerk about telling somebody I don't like what they're doing.

As far as what the listing fee is for and what the FVF is for, you're right, I'd tell you it doesn't matter either way. It's just the structure ebay came up with to get paid for the service they provide. Both fees are for their service, a large part of which is exposure. I guess you could think of the FVF kind of like a "finder's fee", their service was used to find you a buyer, so under their current fee structure they should get paid appropriately for that.

hive17 · Jul 6, 2015

What if you list your card on COMC as well as eBay? If I use the same ID and they check after finding me on eBay, is it still stealing of they decide to buy of COMC?

What about Blowout Cards carefully listing their phone number for questions, and then simply "abiding" by the rules by saying "contact us through eBay", knowing full well that it won't always be the case?

I'm just curious. I see both sides. You DO pay for the exposure on eBay with your listing fees (and it's not like they give you a refund if your item doesn't sell); eBya gets their cut. But everyone knows that when your item sells because someone went to www.ebay.com to find it, you already agreed to cut eBay in, and you're reneging on that agreement.

RStadlerASU22 · Jul 6, 2015

hive17 said:
What if you list your card on COMC as well as eBay? If I use the same ID and they check after finding me on eBay, is it still stealing of they decide to buy of COMC?

What about Blowout Cards carefully listing their phone number for questions, and then simply "abiding" by the rules by saying "contact us through eBay", knowing full well that it won't always be the case?

I'm just curious. I see both sides. You DO pay for the exposure on eBay with your listing fees (and it's not like they give you a refund if your item doesn't sell); eBya gets their cut. But everyone knows that when your item sells because someone went to www.ebay.com to find it, you already agreed to cut eBay in, and you're reneging on that agreement.

If its listed on COMC , then you listed it on another marketplace and they aren't contacting you through eBay. So that really isn't skirting any eBay TOS.

Ryan

chris19978 · Jul 6, 2015

Please post on the topic this is for as this was for buying an item no matter if you feel it was right or wrong for the member to buy it the way he did. No one here is stealing or they would be in jail all that might of happened is they broke ebay policy. Again the the member who bought the Mattingly card congrats it's a nice looking card.

David Anthony · Jul 8, 2015

hive17 said:
The troll got what he wanted guys. Good one...

Elaborate please. I made a valid observation and instead of the accused manning up and admitting his crimes, he continues to refuse that there are any wrongdoings on his end. No trolling was involved or needed. This is an issue that has been brought up numerous times over the years. I was shocked that someone blatantly admitted to this on this forum to begin with.

sportscardtheory · Jul 8, 2015

Crimes. lol Better lawyer up, OP. They'll be at your house to arrest you very soon...

hive17 · Jul 8, 2015

David Anthony said:
Elaborate please. I made a valid observation and instead of the accused manning up and admitting his crimes, he continues to refuse that there are any wrongdoings on his end. No trolling was involved or needed. This is an issue that has been brought up numerous times over the years. I was shocked that someone blatantly admitted to this on this forum to begin with.

Shocked...?

Really...?

hive17 · Jul 8, 2015

sportscardtheory said:
Crimes. lol Better lawyer up, OP. They'll be at your house to arrest you very soon...

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How much do you think is a fair price on what to expect for this card? 1/1........

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