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Thread: I believe UD put out another fake autograph

  1. #1
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    I believe UD put out another fake autograph

    About a year ago, I acquired an autograph book. From the contents, I assume it belonged to a nurse at a Military hospital. Also inside was the clipping in the first image. I examined it with a loop, and it has slight indentions, but no bleed through. I kept it, still not sure if it was genuine. Neat auto, not really rare though. Fast forward to a few weeks ago, and I come across a listing on eBay. Second image. Besides the little tail on the 's', it is an EXACT match. Now I guess there is the possibility of an autopen, but I have no experience or in depth knowledge of them. Maybe someone else can give their opinion. I'm guessing both are stamped, unless Mrs. Roosevelt was a robot. So now what? Should UD be contacted? Should the Seller be contacted, even though it isn't his fault? Should I contact UD to try to sell them my cut? Mine doesn't even have the 'circulated widely' statement at the bottom (which in of itself raises questions as to the authenticity of the auto.)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails eleanor1.jpeg   eleanor2.jpeg  
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    Administrator cgilmo's Avatar
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    These signatures are in no way exact. The trail on the t is quite alarming but there is a spacing difference on the first e in the last name.

    It also has no hallmarks of an auto pen such as pooling.

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    Administrator cgilmo's Avatar
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    Also look at the s. Yours trails upwards much more.

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    Bout as an exact of the same as you could get. The only thing I do agree with is the S extends further in one vs the other. Not sure if it's a machine or what, but it's pretty amazing they are as close as they are.

    Ryan
    Will Clark / Mike Brown Collector
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    Member mrmopar's Avatar
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    I looked at both side by side on a larger scale and I'd guess it was some sort of autopen signature. They are nearly identical to every detail.

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    Senior Member Austin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgilmo View Post
    These signatures are in no way exact. The trail on the t is quite alarming but there is a spacing difference on the first e in the last name.
    I bet if someone superimposes the two signatures it will be a 99% identical match, with miniscule variations on the tips of letters because of ink amounts used in the autopen/stamp/printing of the signature. They're the same.
    Set builder, autograph hunter and fan of the Texas Rangers & '50s-'60s Yankees


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    Administrator cgilmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrmopar View Post
    I looked at both side by side on a larger scale and I'd guess it was some sort of autopen signature. They are nearly identical to every detail.
    Autopens stop and start causing pooling.

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    Senior Member Austin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgilmo View Post
    Autopens stop and start causing pooling.[/URL]
    Only some autopens cause pooling. When the motion and lifting is swift, there is no or barely noticable pooling.
    Set builder, autograph hunter and fan of the Texas Rangers & '50s-'60s Yankees


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    Quote Originally Posted by cgilmo View Post
    These signatures are in no way exact. The trail on the t is quite alarming but there is a spacing difference on the first e in the last name.

    It also has no hallmarks of an auto pen such as pooling.

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    Trust me, besides the extra line on the 's', they are exact matches. From character spacing, line thickening, the little dot at the end of Eleanor, to the missing ink dot on the 't'.

    And thinking about the auto pen more, wouldn't all of the items/letters being signed most likely have been the same? My scrap should also have the 'may be circulated widely' line.


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    Administrator cgilmo's Avatar
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    I disagree. I see a few differences.

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    Senior Member Austin's Avatar
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    Somebody who knows how, please superimpose the two signatures to show they're the same.
    Set builder, autograph hunter and fan of the Texas Rangers & '50s-'60s Yankees


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    Besides a list of other similarities , that T with the "dot" / missing ink is about as clear as it gets.

    Ryan
    Will Clark / Mike Brown Collector
    ALWAYS LOOKING FOR ODDBALL, REGIONAL, TEAM ISSUED, VARIATIONS, AND TOUGH CARDS OF WILL CLARK AND MIKE BROWN





    BIG THANKS TO JBEL4431 FOR THE BANNERS

  13. #13
    Administrator cgilmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RStadlerASU22 View Post
    Besides a list of other similarities , that T with the "dot" / missing ink is about as clear as it gets.

    Ryan
    Will Clark / Mike Brown Collector
    I mentioned that.

    Anyone got Photoshop open?

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  14. #14
    Member mrmopar's Avatar
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    Nobody's signature is that close between different signings. it may not be an autopen, but it is a preprint or something automated, not signed by hand.

  15. #15
    Senior Member 200lbhockeyplayer's Avatar
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    Autopen.
    Hello again.

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