Welcome to our community

Be apart of something great, join today!

What's the worse thing to happen to this hobby?

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

rsmath

Active member
Nov 8, 2008
6,086
1
A few:

Agreed about lack of competition for Topps. Not sure giving Panini logos would help that as it seems neither have been real innovative in the last 2 years in their baseball releases.

Number of releases - I don't think we need 1-3 per year like the junk years, but I think 15 or whatever is too much. 10 would seem more reasonable to give collectors something to collect and cover at least one each product for the various bases (kids, flagship, retro, medium end, high end).

Base cards that have 20 (number exaggerated) parallels. I hate busting a box and having to consult a website or reference guide to find out what the parallels are and if they have numbering, etc. A base card and 2-3 parallels is easier to remember and keeps it simpler.

Boxes that are not likely to deliver the value paid for them. For instance, if you are going to have a box with a MSRP $80, how about $65-80 of estimated market value of cards/inserts/hits in that box that delivers on a regular basis?

Overproduction of Topps reprints and topps designs - I'm a 1971 baby but I admit Topps is killing the 1971 design for me with its overuse in reprints and current players on 1971 design. Ditto 1987 design. Additionally, is there a topps product anymore that doesn't feature a vintage topps reprint even if just in an advertisement insert form?

Lack of a patch imaging system - if the USPS can email me each day the images of my mail that have gone through their sorters, why cant card companies image their patches somehow whether as large uncut sheets or individually like COMC so one can check the authenticity of the patch they are looking to purchase at a card show or online? Manufacturers could even pay the expense of imaging/storing the patch card images by offering the authentication as a cheap $1-2 per card service where a collector submits the desired card info online and the automated request system delivers an image of the card or emails the image of the card to the collector.

===========

I disagree on the brian gray comments - I know you ripken jr. and rose collectors must hate him for flooding the market with their autos, but I like it as it made it affordable for me to obtain their autos for my collection.
 

WCTYSON

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2014
7,364
171
I may be one of the few members of this board that started collecting when there was only one manufacturer and remember how cool it was to get new cards as the summer progressed as cards were issued in series and not all at once. Fleer and Donruss came around in 1981 and we were all blown away by the innovation especially with the Fleer offering. Most of us who collected were fine with one maker and when the other two came to the table there were murmurs that overproduction was going to kill the hobby. By the mid 80's there were so many other brands and makers of cards that collectors were turned off to this hobby as their "investment" went into the toilet. Collectors were weeded out with many leaving the hobby or others turning to vintage cards which in turn jacked up the values of all vintage offerings which sent the prices out of reach of many collectors. So on one side we have worthless modern cards and mostly high priced vintage with little in between worth collecting.

In my opinion overproduction caused so many issues for this hobby that this is the worse thing that ever happened to it.......

This is exactly right.

What is your opinion on what grading has done to the hobby?
 

Mighty Bombjack

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
6,115
12
It's an interesting thread, one that I think fulfills the OP's purpose in the overall collection of answers. What I mean is, we have seen time and time again that consumers (and here I mean a blanket term that covers collectors/investors/flippers/prospectors/set-builders/etc - basically anybody who puts any money at all into cards) are their own worst enemies just because the motivations and desires are so diverse.

Just look through the thread, and you see "overproduction" vs. "too hard to build a set", and "not enough value" vs. "too expensive for kids". You also see "too many products" right next to "Topps shouldn't have monopoly" (the exclusive license by MLB was their attempt to limit the products on the market, and they knew there were pros and cons to doing so).

All of these opinions have merit, but so many ideas here are contradictory. Imagine yourself onto the board of a card manufacturer and you might thought-experiment yourself into what I mean. Even back in 2002 (when I worked for a manufacturer), there were conversations just like this one:

"Maybe we should cut costs and price points to appeal to kids. We just have to reduce (to almost zero) the number of GU and auto cards in our products."

"Collectors will hate that, they are always calling for 'more value.'"

This same convo continues today, I'm sure, and about many other facets of the "hobby" as well.


Grading is its own thing. I remember when I saw my first graded cards, I thought "that's a good idea in the Internet/eBay era, could take the guess work out of a seller describing condition and a buyer knowing what they are buying." But who knew that it would become a massive subset of the hobby in itself, with sub-grades and fractions of grades causing calculated shifts in value. There's no doubt that lots of people are collecting slabs as much as (if not more than) the cards inside. That's not an outcome of the grading companies' plans, but of their responses to established consumer habits and trends.

Like I said, card consumers are their own worst enemies. That's all for now, but I hope more people add their opinions to this very interesting thread.
 

death2redemptions

New member
Feb 4, 2016
12,488
0
The Carolina on the Southern side
The over production era killed the general public's interest in the hobby and turned off a lot of potential hobbyists...

Yup. There was a time when people were saying that trading cards could be a smart investment option.

Then the companies began pumping out a never ending supply of sets per product and the estimated production numbers came to light.

No longer a smart investment plan. Although vintage should at the very least maintain their value due to rarity. They've certainly gone up in value since then.
 

mchenrycards

Featured Contributor, Vintage Corner, Senior Membe
This is exactly right.

What is your opinion on what grading has done to the hobby?

All one needs to do is find a hobby magazine or publication from before grading took a foothold on the hobby and see just how much of a domino impact grading has had on our hobby. Allow me to explain.

Previously, grading was subjective but most could certainly agree on the guidelines of where a card fell in terms of grade. Beckett put out a very detailed listing of what characteristics a card needed to have to fall into a specific grade and most could agree that a card with a dinged corner was basically a VG card and really didn't need a third party to tell them. Pricing was very conservative on cards and one knew what he was going to pay if someone wanted a VG copy of say an Aaron rookie or darn near any other card put out there. Prices across the board were affordable even for the highest grades of cards. Somewhere in the late 80's or there about, grading companies entered the picture and although they were slow to pick up traction, more and more collectors saw the benefit of grading for their cards. They saw their cards were protected and there was no longer an argument over the grade because PSA or SCD said it was mint and they could ask for mint prices. Collectors being collectors, they wanted to best grade available for their collection and before we knew it prices were being driven up, even for the lesser grades as the demand increased. PSA discovered that they could drive more business to their company by introducing the set registry which caused the competitive nature of collectors to come out as they tried to outdo everyone else in collecting the absolute set available. This competition drove prices up for not only the graded cards but ungraded which eventually would turn many collectors off because of the shenanigans many used to grade their cards higher. Even prices for your most common of cards was driven up because those set collectors needed them to finish their graded set.

So to answer your question I feel grading ruined the hobby in that the prices for all cards across the board were driven skyward, causing many to be priced out of the market. Non graded set collectors could no longer accomplish their goals of completing a full set of vintage cards each year because if one was to purchase cards individually like set collectors like to do, the sum of the amount they have invested in their set would never add up to their true retail value. I was lucky in that my father and I started buying collections in the late 70's and early 80's when values were no existent and we were able to have complete sets from 1956 going forward of Topps baseball AND football offerings. That could never be done today unless one was a millionaire. Grading, overproduction and the need to make money on cards have replaced the "aww shucks" boyhood dreams of just collecting cards because they reminded you of a different time which honestly makes me sad. While I made a great deal of money from cards over the years and even ran a successful card shop for a long time it is the fact we have lost the simplicity of the hobby and money reigns supreme.

As for me, I pretty much sold off everything and have boiled down my collecting habits to those sets I collected as a child and a few others that I know I can never complete but will try like heck to get them done because for me, they give me a measure of happiness and I am no longer driven by how much money I can make from my collection.
 

Mighty Bombjack

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
6,115
12
Yup. There was a time when people were saying that trading cards could be a smart investment option.

Then the companies began pumping out a never ending supply of sets per product and the estimated production numbers came to light.

No longer a smart investment plan. Although vintage should at the very least maintain their value due to rarity. They've certainly gone up in value since then.
You have to add the other side of the double-edged sword to this: In addition to ramped up production, people started taking care of their cards (no more bicycle spokes). So, you have X times the number of cards being produced multiplied by X number of people storing them away in mint condition. That equals ZERO value and a lot of burned consumers (and also explains why vintage continues to do well - can't turn back the clock and save those '52 Mantles from the ocean, after all).
 

fordman

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2013
3,190
32
Ohio
Personally for me, It was grading cards. It's an over inflated pricing market that is subjective to a few graders (actual people) in the hobby. You pay a guy/gal a few bucks to say your card is:

1) Real
2) Player specific. I dont understand why a Griffey Jr commands a premium to be graded by the same guy that graded a Sal Butera card. Does it take longer to grade the Griffey Jr? or is BGS/PSA just making sure they get their share of the sale after it leaves their grading building?
3) Centered to their satisfaction
4) did the pen smear on the auto?
5) If they had a bad commute in to work, they may take it out on your card grade.

There are many more reasons but you get the point.

I have bought about a dozen graded cards in the last few years. Cracked all out the their cases and put the cards in to one-touch holders to match the rest of my collection.

Fordman
 

bstanwood

Well-known member
Sep 24, 2016
3,666
332
Mystic, CT
For me all the ups and downs of the hobby will ebb and flow, what's big today probably won't be tomorrow. The one that has the biggest negative impact on me is prospecting for investment. If I buy a card of a kid who hasn't played an inning in the majors he is either wearing a red Sox uniform or in rare circumstances just someone I really like. Prospecting almost universally drives prices up just because it might yield a payday. I don't collect to sell, I collect to own. I certainly understand there's money to be made and everyone's gotta eat, but there are times it irks me. Kids in a-ball shouldn't have cards that sell for more than a vintage HOF rookie...I know I know market dictates value blah blah, just bother me sometimes
 

JVHaste

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2015
4,751
270
Vancouver WA
Yup. There was a time when people were saying that trading cards could be a smart investment option.

Then the companies began pumping out a never ending supply of sets per product and the estimated production numbers came to light.

No longer a smart investment plan. Although vintage should at the very least maintain their value due to rarity. They've certainly gone up in value since then.

Idiots who bought cases who didn't even watch a single baseball game and then lost money was the absolute best part IMO :lol:

stock-tips.png
 

RyansCards

New member
Aug 10, 2017
2
0
I hope people are still reading this far down.

To answer the OP's question, I think the worst thing to happen to the hobby is the current attitude of the "I collected in the 80s" generation.

To put it simply, it's time to get with the times, my dudes.

The hobby is alive and well. Yes, there are "hit chasers" whose main concern is selling a big hit as soon as they rip it. But for every 1 of those guys there are 8 kids using instagram and Facebook to trade base rookies, parallels of their favorite card, team sets, hot rookies, and low end autos.

These kids are learning how to sell and trade-up so that they can get the cards they want or even that "big hit" card that comes in the $80 box that they can't afford.

The "80s collectors" are upset that there are "so many variations" and "no true rookie card", while there's a thousand 13 year olds trying to trade or pull every variation of his or her favorite player's card that they can. ....Somewhere along this line, you lost the magic of it all.

And for those who say, "I sold off all my collection" or "I stopped collecting in 2000-whatever until just recently", it was always about the investment for you. Baseball cards are nothing more than money to you, and we don't want you in our hobby anymore. So just stay on your forums, and I'll be in the market using my 6 different Judge rookies and 6 different Bellinger rookies to trading my way up to that 1993 SP Jeter Rookie that you'll never have.




Sent from my iPhone using Freedom Card Board mobile app
 

mchenrycards

Featured Contributor, Vintage Corner, Senior Membe
I hope people are still reading this far down.

To answer the OP's question, I think the worst thing to happen to the hobby is the current attitude of the "I collected in the 80s" generation.

To put it simply, it's time to get with the times, my dudes.

The hobby is alive and well. Yes, there are "hit chasers" whose main concern is selling a big hit as soon as they rip it. But for every 1 of those guys there are 8 kids using instagram and Facebook to trade base rookies, parallels of their favorite card, team sets, hot rookies, and low end autos.

These kids are learning how to sell and trade-up so that they can get the cards they want or even that "big hit" card that comes in the $80 box that they can't afford.

The "80s collectors" are upset that there are "so many variations" and "no true rookie card", while there's a thousand 13 year olds trying to trade or pull every variation of his or her favorite player's card that they can. ....Somewhere along this line, you lost the magic of it all.

And for those who say, "I sold off all my collection" or "I stopped collecting in 2000-whatever until just recently", it was always about the investment for you. Baseball cards are nothing more than money to you, and we don't want you in our hobby anymore. So just stay on your forums, and I'll be in the market using my 6 different Judge rookies and 6 different Bellinger rookies to trading my way up to that 1993 SP Jeter Rookie that you'll never have.




Sent from my iPhone using Freedom Card Board mobile app

I guess we all have our perspectives but to lump all of those who sold their collection in one bucket and discount them is probably unwise to say the least. As I mentioned before, yes I sold my collection a few times and it was never about the money. My collection and that of my fathers was so vast we just had so much stuff and honestly got bored with what we had. Remember, We bought collections starting in the late 70's (I started collecting in '73 so I guess that takes me out of your '80's collector profile) and we sold them as the big boom hit. If I would have held onto those cards and sold them even 5 years later I could have easily afforded a T206 Wagner using the prices of the day back then. For me it was not about the money but a refocusing of the hobby I still hold dear. So if you want to lump me in with all of those others who sold their collections and kick me out then go for it but I am one of these guys who kept the hobby alive in the years nobody gave a crap about crap just so guys like you can come in and trade up to a Jeter card that was not all that hard to get and still isnt.

Yep, I sound like an old man who is yelling for you to get off my lawn but honestly, I think you are misinformed and should do some research on the origins of the hobby and those who helped keep this hobby alive through the very lean years. There are many of us out there who chose to "cash in" so to speak only to sink that money back into a hobby we love and buy things we really wanted to have.
 

Super Mario

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2009
18,242
85
Mushroom Kingdom
And for those who say, "I sold off all my collection" or "I stopped collecting in 2000-whatever until just recently", it was always about the investment for you. Baseball cards are nothing more than money to you, and we don't want you in our hobby anymore

^
This.

I believe what’s really ruined this hobby are the people who are in it for the sole purpose of making a buck. I’m not talking about local card shop owners either, they’re actually a benefit to the hobby.

I’m talking about people who buy cards just to flip them for profit. They’re the reason we have single pack boxes in the $1,000’s. It’s not a hobby for them, it’s a financial endeavor, and those people suck. They don’t bust cards for fun, they’re just gamblers looking to strike it rich.

Never once have I ever opened a pack of cards in hope of pulling something huge and flipping it.

There are a ton of people who open a pack of cards and the first thing out of their mouth is ‘I just made my money back.’ or ‘I can flip this for profit.’

That’s not what this hobby is about, not for me anyway.

I’m not saying that people should never flip cards. If I pulled an Aaron Judge autograph today I would have it listed on eBay. Because I don’t give two sh*ts about Aaron Judge and there would be no reason for me to keep it. But I’m not buying packs or boxes with the sole purpose of chasing a Judge card just to flip. I think those people suck, and they’re the definition of what’s wrong with this hobby. It’s not a hobby to them, it’s a business.
 

banjar

Well-known member
Mar 22, 2015
2,540
883
Lafayette, Colorado
RyansCards said:
And for those who say, "I sold off all my collection" or "I stopped collecting in 2000-whatever until just recently", it was always about the investment for you. Baseball cards are nothing more than money to you, and we don't want you in our hobby anymore. So just stay on your forums, and I'll be in the market using my 6 different Judge rookies and 6 different Bellinger rookies to trading my way up to that 1993 SP Jeter Rookie that you'll never have.


^
This.

I believe what’s really ruined this hobby are the people who are in it for the sole purpose of making a buck. I’m not talking about local card shop owners either, they’re actually a benefit to the hobby.

I’m talking about people who buy cards just to flip them for profit. They’re the reason we have single pack boxes in the $1,000’s. It’s not a hobby for them, it’s a financial endeavor, and those people suck. They don’t bust cards for fun, they’re just gamblers looking to strike it rich.

Listen, you both have valid points about card flippers being a problem in the hobby. For example these guys who practice ebay arbitrage. The act of buying cards online and immediately relisting them at inflated prices adds no value whatsoever to collectors, or the hobby, or to humanity. If you want to do that, OK fine I guess that is your right as a computer owner, but it is totally useless and I have no time for it. Yes I am talking about you, snowmobiles comma vintage!

But bashing people who left the hobby a decade or two ago, and have since come back, as profiteers, is a totally specious theory. There are countless posts on this board from people who have returned after many years, and since I'm one of these people, I read every one of them. I find it interesting to read about people's paths in and out of the hobby. And so if you actually take time to understand why people left, and later came back, the overwhelming common theme is exactly the opposite of what you're saying.

We didn't leave the hobby because we couldn't turn enough profit, we left for *exactly the opposite reason*. It was because the hobby got too much for us. Proliferation of issues plus soaring prices are the things that drove us out of the hobby, either directly (because we were younger then and didn't have $ to keep collecting what we wanted) or indirectly (we decided to spend our time pursuing other interests). And likewise, we didn't come back years later because it suddenly became easier to turn that profit again. We came back because we rediscovered how much fun this hobby can be, and we now had real jobs.

You are also ignoring the fact that the overproduction era was THE time to make money by flipping cards. Remember in the 90's when there was a card shop on every corner? There was a reason for that. Of course LCS's are a real benefit to the hobby (unlike ebay flippers) and I wish we had more...but reselling cards is a major part of running a viable card shop. So why would profit seekers leave the hobby at this peak? Sheesh.

By the way I just scrolled through sold listings of that 93 SP Jeter on ebay. Many examples going for under $100. Pretty sure I could have one of those if I wanted one :)
 
Last edited:

mchenrycards

Featured Contributor, Vintage Corner, Senior Membe
Listen, you both have valid points about card flippers being a problem in the hobby. For example these guys who practice ebay arbitrage. The act of buying cards online and immediately relisting them at inflated prices adds no value whatsoever to collectors, or the hobby, or to humanity. If you want to do that, OK fine I guess that is your right as a computer owner, but it is totally useless and I have no time for it. Yes I am talking about you, snowmobiles comma vintage!

But bashing people who left the hobby a decade or two ago, and have since come back, as profiteers, is a totally specious theory. There are countless posts on this board from people who have returned after many years, and since I'm one of these people, I read every one of them. I find it interesting to read about people's paths in and out of the hobby. And so if you actually take time to understand why people left, and later came back, the overwhelming common theme is exactly the opposite of what you're saying.

We didn't leave the hobby because we couldn't turn enough profit, we left for *exactly the opposite reason*. It was because the hobby got too much for us. Proliferation of issues plus soaring prices are the things that drove us out of the hobby, either directly (because we were younger then and didn't have $ to keep collecting what we wanted) or indirectly (we decided to spend our time pursuing other interests). And likewise, we didn't come back years later because it suddenly became easier to turn that profit again. We came back because we rediscovered how much fun this hobby can be, and we now had real jobs.

You are also ignoring the fact that the overproduction era was THE time to make money by flipping cards. Remember in the 90's when there was a card shop on every corner? There was a reason for that. Of course LCS's are a real benefit to the hobby (unlike ebay flippers) and I wish we had more...but reselling cards is a major part of running a viable card shop. So why would profit seekers leave the hobby at this peak? Sheesh.

By the way I just scrolled through sold listings of that 93 SP Jeter on ebay. Many examples going for under $100. Pretty sure I could have one of those if I wanted one :)

Do we have a huge hand clapping icon here because if we do I would post a million of them!

Thank you!
 

death2redemptions

New member
Feb 4, 2016
12,488
0
The Carolina on the Southern side
Level of importance
1. Baseball
2. Trading Cards

I may leave the hobby every once in awhile (cuz you know, life tosses you curveballs when you least expect it) but as long as my love for baseball remains (and it always will) I'll always end up coming back.

Changes in trends of the hobby have never bothered me enough to stop collecting. I generally embrace them. Well, "embrace" may not be the right word but I'm always interested in something new. For instance, there was a time I hated the idea of prospecting but I gave it a try and ended up loving it. I feel prospectors often get a bad rep in the hobby because "collectors" think they are only in it for the money and in some cases they are correct but for me, it opened up an interest in minor league baseball, something I was never enthusiastic about in the past. Sure, a lot of games I watch because I have money invested in certain players but where do you think the money I earn from any potential profit goes? Right back into more prospects & cards for my PC. I don't have an exact ratio but if I were to guess, about half into more prospecting, maybe 40% into my collection and at most 10% of the profit will go into my pockets. Prospecting was also a way for me to get that same thrill I got from opening wax when I decided to stop because it was getting far too expensive. It has saved me a ton of money in the process and because of this it has allowed me to expand my PC. I like to consider myself both a prospector and a collector but when I was purely ripping wax, it really was all about the money. Well, more so an addiction because I never made any money.

There have been some trends I really haven't been able to get into, like digital cards but I'm not leaving out the possibility that I may someday.

So, like I mentioned earlier, the only change in this hobby that effected me personally was the Topps monopoly because it limited the options to choose from. These days I pretty much know what to expect. It's the same Topps products coming out around the same time of year. I feel competition is good for the hobby and inspires more ideas.
 

OhioCollectibles

New member
Aug 28, 2008
245
0
I collect a few players and build some sets for my pc. I also enjoy busting wax looking for a hit. If I pull some low numbered unproven prospect or auto of todays hot rookie that sells for 50-60,000 you better believe your ass its going on ebay.

1. I can fill a lot of holes in my 50's, 60's & 70's topps sets.

2. Someone is dumb enough to buy it

I collect Chet Lemon
 

BowmanChromeAddict

New member
Aug 8, 2008
4,202
0
Downingtown, PA
It’s a tie for #1 in my opinion.

DLP losing their license, and Brian Gray.

BG is literally the only reason I'm still in this hobby at all. He fills a few niche markets within the hobby, manufactures quality product, and yes, he usually beats the competition to release. Not every product is a winner, but most do well, but he has resurrected the Leaf brand and is making well received product. Nobody is expecting a Kris Bryant Leaf auto to sell for the same as Bowman Chrome auto. But there is still a demand for the Leaf product and it still experiences the same rise and fall in value based upon player demand. These sort of blanket bashing comments are just out of line. No Razor didn't work, but that had more to do with overproduction, lousy quality in a first release, and a SUPER slow to develop draft class. Everything BG has done with Leaf since then has been to make improvements as I'm certain he learned a ton from Razor.

All of the above non-sense about the flippers and those in the hobby just to make money being the problem, I think you just need to realize that most everything (Fakes aside) has its place in the hobby and without everyone the hobby doesn't last. Quite honestly you all just sound like grumpy old men sitting around talking about the good old days before ebay and the internet...you probably wish you were still getting your BBCM every month. Now that I think about it...those were fun times. "Hooray, Beckett says that my Frank Thomas parallel has a 50X multiplier, so it's WORTH $100 now the base card went from $1.50 to $2.00 in the Hi Column" (My dad in the background..."It's only WORTH what someone will pay for it!") But I digress....
 

Members online

Top