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Thread: What's the worse thing to happen to this hobby?

  1. #31
    Administrator cgilmo's Avatar
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    Topps didn't so much push ud out as much as ud fell on their own sword.


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  2. #32
    Administrator cgilmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JVHaste View Post
    Whatever happened to BG anyways? Wasn't he getting sued over something a few years ago?
    Lol. No. He's still making cards at leaf.


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  3. #33
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    UD tried to buy Topps at one point. We all see how well that went.

    I collect Chet Lemon
    I collect Nolan Ryan, KC Royals, Dylan Strome and AZ Coyotes

  4. #34
    Member JVHaste's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgilmo View Post
    Lol. No. He's still making cards at leaf.


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    cool, good for him. I will have to try to google for who Im thinking of
    iirc there was a story of a small time developer making something too similar to the Crusade design and there was going to be a lawsuit. Thats about the time I stopped listening to card news.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewer Andy View Post
    To add more honest thoughts to the thread, yes over production was bad. Too many choices indeed made it difficult to "collect". I actually liked the one big series releases of my youth more than multiple Series and Updates (other than a small boxed set). As a kid you had all summer to buy packs and build those sets. It can still be done though and set building is an underrated joy. A blaster a week should easily build a complete base set over a year. How is set building so underrated as a form of collecting entertainment? It's the "hit" mentality IMO. "Collecting cards" meant to be collected in sets until completion became impossible to complete.
    I didn't leave the hobby as a kid because of overproduction. I liked collecting as many cards as I could. I left because of the "big hits". And it started and exploded FAST. The early Upper Deck autos, the Donruss Elite cards, the Fleer Rookie Sensations.......cards of players I collected were unobtainable to an 11 year old and I recall being so angry at card manufacturers over it. What was the point of collecting if I could never get them all? I can't imagine I was alone in leaving for that reason.


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  6. #36
    Senior Member death2redemptions's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscford View Post
    Also, with the prices for boxes being what they are, kids today don't have a chance to collect top notch cards. The average kid isn't going to buy an $80+ hobby or jumbo box. He's spending his few dollars on some packs off of the rack.

    A hobby built for and by children has been stolen away from them. What's worse are sellers who call themselves collectors, when all they really do is corner the market.
    Yeah, the prices of wax are absurd these days. Going off the prices of 2017 wax at Blowoutcards, outside of Opening Day & Bunt (which you only get like 1 auto or relic per case) the only other licensed *hobby box* product available for less than $80 is Topps Series 2 and that's only because it's on sale. The normal asking price is $80. Everything else is $100+. I know this has a lot to do with the hype of super rookies Aaron Judge/Cody Bellinger but regardless, kids can't afford stuff like that so it's pretty much just retail packs or blaster boxes for them (where most hits are plain relic cards).

    But then again, when I was a kid back in '93-'96 we didn't have autograph or relic cards (well in very few products I couldn't afford where they were incredibly tough to pull) and I was stoked when pulling shiny insert cards with neat backgrounds. When I returned to the hobby in '05-'06 most all products had them, some were even one per box. The hobby suddenly became refocused on trying to get that big money hit to sell on e-bay rather than actually collecting. There was certainly a big shift in the hobby somewhere between the time I was a kid ('93-'96) and when I returned in '05-'06.

    Quote Originally Posted by JVHaste View Post
    Where the community will grow is the growth in the game of baseball itself, large market teams are doing good the past few years and also there is international growth.
    Wise words of wisdom & truth. You must be one of those artsy fartsy intellect types who graduated high school, huh?


  7. #37
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    1 word...

    Redemption.

  8. #38
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    The over production era killed the general public's interest in the hobby and turned off a lot of potential hobbyists...
    Currently looking for: 2012 Ultra football (1992 style) #31 Rudy and Gold parallel version of 2011 Bowman Platinum Chase Utley #94.

    Always looking for: 2008 BC Jake Peavy Orange Refractors /25, have 6 so far.

  9. #39
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    As a kid of the 80s, I loved opened packs but never liked making sets although everyone else did.

    Then, once over production really hit, companies had to come up with a new idea to get back customers they lost
    and inserts were the answer.

    So once collectors started chasing inserts, set collecting started to fall.

    And then once inserts got old, companies came up with jerseys and more autos and once those became old, well, that's where we are now.

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  10. #40
    Member chris19978's Avatar
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    I can't get into the new cards and wish I stopped buying packs on the earl 2000's. Though inserts got a little crazy in the 90's it is no where near what it is today. You can get multiple 1/1 cards of the same player. Then that's not even counting the other 10 numbered color variations normally numbered to 5, 10, 25, 50, 100, 250, and 1000. 90% of the cards I bought from 2000 on that are not 90's cards I will take a loss on. At this point I might just say oh well get rid of them on auctions starting at 90 cent and where they end will be fine with me. The huge sellers who buy tons of cases and sell sets and everything right away at premium prices have killed the hobby for me. You know if you wait 6 moths to a year most of the base sets you can get at a fraction of the price you get it when it's first released. This is why I only collect a hand full of cards of my favorite player now. I would hate to player collect now because it is impossible to get all his cards every year now.

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  11. #41
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    A few:

    Agreed about lack of competition for Topps. Not sure giving Panini logos would help that as it seems neither have been real innovative in the last 2 years in their baseball releases.

    Number of releases - I don't think we need 1-3 per year like the junk years, but I think 15 or whatever is too much. 10 would seem more reasonable to give collectors something to collect and cover at least one each product for the various bases (kids, flagship, retro, medium end, high end).

    Base cards that have 20 (number exaggerated) parallels. I hate busting a box and having to consult a website or reference guide to find out what the parallels are and if they have numbering, etc. A base card and 2-3 parallels is easier to remember and keeps it simpler.

    Boxes that are not likely to deliver the value paid for them. For instance, if you are going to have a box with a MSRP $80, how about $65-80 of estimated market value of cards/inserts/hits in that box that delivers on a regular basis?

    Overproduction of Topps reprints and topps designs - I'm a 1971 baby but I admit Topps is killing the 1971 design for me with its overuse in reprints and current players on 1971 design. Ditto 1987 design. Additionally, is there a topps product anymore that doesn't feature a vintage topps reprint even if just in an advertisement insert form?

    Lack of a patch imaging system - if the USPS can email me each day the images of my mail that have gone through their sorters, why cant card companies image their patches somehow whether as large uncut sheets or individually like COMC so one can check the authenticity of the patch they are looking to purchase at a card show or online? Manufacturers could even pay the expense of imaging/storing the patch card images by offering the authentication as a cheap $1-2 per card service where a collector submits the desired card info online and the automated request system delivers an image of the card or emails the image of the card to the collector.

    ===========

    I disagree on the brian gray comments - I know you ripken jr. and rose collectors must hate him for flooding the market with their autos, but I like it as it made it affordable for me to obtain their autos for my collection.

  12. #42
    Senior Member WCTYSON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mchenrycards View Post
    I may be one of the few members of this board that started collecting when there was only one manufacturer and remember how cool it was to get new cards as the summer progressed as cards were issued in series and not all at once. Fleer and Donruss came around in 1981 and we were all blown away by the innovation especially with the Fleer offering. Most of us who collected were fine with one maker and when the other two came to the table there were murmurs that overproduction was going to kill the hobby. By the mid 80's there were so many other brands and makers of cards that collectors were turned off to this hobby as their "investment" went into the toilet. Collectors were weeded out with many leaving the hobby or others turning to vintage cards which in turn jacked up the values of all vintage offerings which sent the prices out of reach of many collectors. So on one side we have worthless modern cards and mostly high priced vintage with little in between worth collecting.

    In my opinion overproduction caused so many issues for this hobby that this is the worse thing that ever happened to it.......
    This is exactly right.

    What is your opinion on what grading has done to the hobby?
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  13. #43
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    It's an interesting thread, one that I think fulfills the OP's purpose in the overall collection of answers. What I mean is, we have seen time and time again that consumers (and here I mean a blanket term that covers collectors/investors/flippers/prospectors/set-builders/etc - basically anybody who puts any money at all into cards) are their own worst enemies just because the motivations and desires are so diverse.

    Just look through the thread, and you see "overproduction" vs. "too hard to build a set", and "not enough value" vs. "too expensive for kids". You also see "too many products" right next to "Topps shouldn't have monopoly" (the exclusive license by MLB was their attempt to limit the products on the market, and they knew there were pros and cons to doing so).

    All of these opinions have merit, but so many ideas here are contradictory. Imagine yourself onto the board of a card manufacturer and you might thought-experiment yourself into what I mean. Even back in 2002 (when I worked for a manufacturer), there were conversations just like this one:

    "Maybe we should cut costs and price points to appeal to kids. We just have to reduce (to almost zero) the number of GU and auto cards in our products."

    "Collectors will hate that, they are always calling for 'more value.'"

    This same convo continues today, I'm sure, and about many other facets of the "hobby" as well.


    Grading is its own thing. I remember when I saw my first graded cards, I thought "that's a good idea in the Internet/eBay era, could take the guess work out of a seller describing condition and a buyer knowing what they are buying." But who knew that it would become a massive subset of the hobby in itself, with sub-grades and fractions of grades causing calculated shifts in value. There's no doubt that lots of people are collecting slabs as much as (if not more than) the cards inside. That's not an outcome of the grading companies' plans, but of their responses to established consumer habits and trends.

    Like I said, card consumers are their own worst enemies. That's all for now, but I hope more people add their opinions to this very interesting thread.
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  14. #44
    Senior Member death2redemptions's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gt2590 View Post
    The over production era killed the general public's interest in the hobby and turned off a lot of potential hobbyists...
    Yup. There was a time when people were saying that trading cards could be a smart investment option.

    Then the companies began pumping out a never ending supply of sets per product and the estimated production numbers came to light.

    No longer a smart investment plan. Although vintage should at the very least maintain their value due to rarity. They've certainly gone up in value since then.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCTYSON View Post
    This is exactly right.

    What is your opinion on what grading has done to the hobby?
    All one needs to do is find a hobby magazine or publication from before grading took a foothold on the hobby and see just how much of a domino impact grading has had on our hobby. Allow me to explain.

    Previously, grading was subjective but most could certainly agree on the guidelines of where a card fell in terms of grade. Beckett put out a very detailed listing of what characteristics a card needed to have to fall into a specific grade and most could agree that a card with a dinged corner was basically a VG card and really didn't need a third party to tell them. Pricing was very conservative on cards and one knew what he was going to pay if someone wanted a VG copy of say an Aaron rookie or darn near any other card put out there. Prices across the board were affordable even for the highest grades of cards. Somewhere in the late 80's or there about, grading companies entered the picture and although they were slow to pick up traction, more and more collectors saw the benefit of grading for their cards. They saw their cards were protected and there was no longer an argument over the grade because PSA or SCD said it was mint and they could ask for mint prices. Collectors being collectors, they wanted to best grade available for their collection and before we knew it prices were being driven up, even for the lesser grades as the demand increased. PSA discovered that they could drive more business to their company by introducing the set registry which caused the competitive nature of collectors to come out as they tried to outdo everyone else in collecting the absolute set available. This competition drove prices up for not only the graded cards but ungraded which eventually would turn many collectors off because of the shenanigans many used to grade their cards higher. Even prices for your most common of cards was driven up because those set collectors needed them to finish their graded set.

    So to answer your question I feel grading ruined the hobby in that the prices for all cards across the board were driven skyward, causing many to be priced out of the market. Non graded set collectors could no longer accomplish their goals of completing a full set of vintage cards each year because if one was to purchase cards individually like set collectors like to do, the sum of the amount they have invested in their set would never add up to their true retail value. I was lucky in that my father and I started buying collections in the late 70's and early 80's when values were no existent and we were able to have complete sets from 1956 going forward of Topps baseball AND football offerings. That could never be done today unless one was a millionaire. Grading, overproduction and the need to make money on cards have replaced the "aww shucks" boyhood dreams of just collecting cards because they reminded you of a different time which honestly makes me sad. While I made a great deal of money from cards over the years and even ran a successful card shop for a long time it is the fact we have lost the simplicity of the hobby and money reigns supreme.

    As for me, I pretty much sold off everything and have boiled down my collecting habits to those sets I collected as a child and a few others that I know I can never complete but will try like heck to get them done because for me, they give me a measure of happiness and I am no longer driven by how much money I can make from my collection.

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