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eBay amends policy on contacting buyer/seller to deal off eBay

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Topnotchsy

Featured Contributor, The best players in history?
Aug 7, 2008
9,444
160
How can this possibly be legal?


"Sellers are liable for fees arising out of all sales made using some or all eBay Services, even if sales terms are finalized or payment is made outside of eBay.

Sellers are also liable for final value fees if they offer or reference their contact information, or ask for a buyer’s contact information, in the context of buying or selling outside of eBay, even if the item does not sell."
 

TNP777

New member
Aug 7, 2008
3,528
1
the 209
The first questions I have is how can they prove a sale was or wasn't made off eBay, and like you asked, how is it legal to charge a FVF for an item that wasn't even sold in the first place? Sounds super shady.
 

AnthonyCorona

Well-known member
Oct 6, 2014
9,600
68
Modesto, CA
Definitely seems shady. If I sell here will they also take a fee?

Bring me your Bickford, Ryan McMahon, Senzatela and Peter Lambert cards
 

RStadlerASU22

Active member
Jan 2, 2013
8,881
11
We got a temp ban a few months ago because a buyer on eBay messaged us about an item, that item sold through SportsMem.com , so we ended it on eBay, but eBay tried to state we sold it to the party on eBay. They reversed that decision. However last month, and I am sure they were monitoring because of that situation, a guy bought 7 items from us on eBay. He messages us the next day and says, hey can we add "xyx" in as well? I replied back, "I'll send you an invoice". I went and sent an invoice through PP to him, by the time I went back to eBay (a couple mins), they locked our account for a week for outside eBay sale.

Ryan
Will Clark / Mike Brown Collector
 

AnthonyCorona

Well-known member
Oct 6, 2014
9,600
68
Modesto, CA
If eBay concludes that contact was somehow initiated through eBay's messaging system, I assume so.
That's crazy. I contacted a guy on ebay who was also on BO. We made a trade on there. One thing I do wonder is how many categories also do transactions off ebay. It won't stop me from buying on ebay but will stop me from selling there

Bring me your Bickford, Ryan McMahon, Senzatela and Peter Lambert cards
 

rsmath

Active member
Nov 8, 2008
6,086
1
How can this possibly be legal?

Because you agreed to ebay TOS by selling there? :rolleyes:

I'm loving this change in term - it's annoying when you find an item listed, place a snipe, and on auction ending day the snipe fails because the seller changed the auction to "item is no longer available" or "error in listing" because they made an off-ebay deal.
 

Musial Collector

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
5,671
2
Because you agreed to ebay TOS by selling there? :rolleyes:

I'm loving this change in term - it's annoying when you find an item listed, place a snipe, and on auction ending day the snipe fails because the seller changed the auction to "item is no longer available" or "error in listing" because they made an off-ebay deal.


This is the BS part of Tops post that I think you are missing: "even if the item does not sell"
With your reasoning, if I sell on eBay, I cant list my stuff anywhere else, correct?
There is nothing wrong with listing an item eBay and pulling it if there are ZERO bids. Absolutely nothing.
I list stuff on eBay and in Facebook groups. If it sells in a Facebook group, I end the listing on eBay. Granted I currently only do BIN/BO, but should be no different if auctioning it off and the item has ZERO bids, I should be able to end the auction without incurring fees.
I DO agree however, and it is currently policy, that if an item does have bids and a seller ends the auction without selling to the current high bidder, that the seller can be charged FVF at the current ending price. That to me is a no brainer on eBay's part.
 

rsmath

Active member
Nov 8, 2008
6,086
1
This is the BS part of Tops post that I think you are missing: "even if the item does not sell"
With your reasoning, if I sell on eBay, I cant list my stuff anywhere else, correct?

I don't think I'm missing any point. Ebay's new term is you can be charged a FVF for an item even if it does not sell if ebay determines you sold the card off-site using ebay to generate interest in the item. Don't sell on ebay if you don't agree with their TOS that you are legally bound to if you use ebay!

Yes, you can't sell your card anywhere else if you listed it on ebay. If you want to sell on FB or whatever, don't list that particular card on ebay!

You may want to quit using ebay to generate interest in your cards that you sell on FB or you'll be hit with quite a few FVF!
 
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death2redemptions

New member
Feb 4, 2016
12,488
0
The Carolina on the Southern side
We got a temp ban a few months ago because a buyer on eBay messaged us about an item, that item sold through SportsMem.com , so we ended it on eBay, but eBay tried to state we sold it to the party on eBay. They reversed that decision. However last month, and I am sure they were monitoring because of that situation, a guy bought 7 items from us on eBay. He messages us the next day and says, hey can we add "xyx" in as well? I replied back, "I'll send you an invoice". I went and sent an invoice through PP to him, by the time I went back to eBay (a couple mins), they locked our account for a week for outside eBay sale.

Ryan
Will Clark / Mike Brown Collector

Yeah, I'm sure they read our messages that are made via ebay if they feel they have reasons to be suspicious.
 

swish54_99

Well-known member
Dec 12, 2012
1,160
221
I don't think it matters if you have something, whether it be a vehicle or a baseball card, etc, listed on ebay and elsewhere. If it sells elsewhere with no connection between ebay then you're fine. It's when someone contacts you on ebay's message system and you pull it to sell off ebay, you then leave a paper trail which can be followed. But I agree, with no paper trail, it'll be almost impossible to enforce.
 

AnthonyCorona

Well-known member
Oct 6, 2014
9,600
68
Modesto, CA
I don't think it matters if you have something, whether it be a vehicle or a baseball card, etc, listed on ebay and elsewhere. If it sells elsewhere with no connection between ebay then you're fine. It's when someone contacts you on ebay's message system and you pull it to sell off ebay, you then leave a paper trail which can be followed. But I agree, with no paper trail, it'll be almost impossible to enforce.
What if u trade a card?

Bring me your Bickford, Ryan McMahon, Senzatela and Peter Lambert cards
 

AnthonyCorona

Well-known member
Oct 6, 2014
9,600
68
Modesto, CA
FVF would apply. Ebay will assume you sold it offsite rather than went offsite to trade it after you used ebays assets to generate interest and ebay doesn't want to promote things for free.
I know u don't work for ebay so I'm not expecting u to have the sure answer but let's say I have a card listed for $350. It's something with a real value or maybe 100. I make a 100 dollar trade and pay 350 FV? Seems like that would prevent people from listing. I've pretty much stopped anyway. U can get a lot of traffic with BO and Twitter. But I guess there's some huge deals that happen off eBay

Bring me your Bickford, Ryan McMahon, Senzatela and Peter Lambert cards
 

Musial Collector

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
5,671
2
I don't think I'm missing any point. Ebay's new term is you can be charged a FVF for an item even if it does not sell if ebay determines you sold the card off-site using ebay to generate interest in the item. Don't sell on ebay if you don't agree with their TOS that you are legally bound to if you use ebay!

Yes, you can't sell your card anywhere else if you listed it on ebay. If you want to sell on FB or whatever, don't list that particular card on ebay!

You may want to quit using ebay to generate interest in your cards that you sell on FB or you'll be hit with quite a few FVF!

YOU make a TON of assumptions!
I never said I was selling cards! Just because this is a sportscard based forum, don't assume!
I never said I use Ebay to generate interest in the product I'm selling! That was your assumption!
I do not cross platform endorse my products! Again, that was your assumption!
I use Ebay to reach a worldwide audience, I use FB "groups" to connect with nitch collectors!
Some people will not use Ebay to buy, they just don't trust sellers on there to get a specific product to them in one piece. In comes the FB groups. As a seller you cannot leave one group out over the other, you miss out on sales!
Item sells on Ebay, I pull it from FB. Item sells on FB, I pull it from Ebay!
I CAN sell my product anywhere I choose! Ebay's TOS Does NOT state that I cannot sell elsewhere! If it does, show me, as I cannot locate that specific language you speak of!
Ebay gives specific instructions on how to end listings early, what fees will be associated (IF ANY) with ending early!
 

AnthonyCorona

Well-known member
Oct 6, 2014
9,600
68
Modesto, CA
Or would I list a card for 350. Make the trade then lower the price to .10 and then end it?

Bring me your Bickford, Ryan McMahon, Senzatela and Peter Lambert cards
 

rsmath

Active member
Nov 8, 2008
6,086
1
In an earlier post in this thread, you wrote:
There is nothing wrong with listing an item eBay and pulling it if there are ZERO bids. Absolutely nothing.
I list stuff on eBay and in Facebook groups. If it sells in a Facebook group, I end the listing on eBay. Granted I currently only do BIN/BO, but should be no different if auctioning it off and the item has ZERO bids, I should be able to end the auction without incurring fees.

YOU make a TON of assumptions!
I never said I was selling cards! Just because this is a sportscard based forum, don't assume!

You said you sell cards. You list them on ebay and complete them on FB.

I never said I use Ebay to generate interest in the product I'm selling! That was your assumption!

Of course you do. That's why you list cards on ebay. Ebay gives your cards visible and drums up interest for bids if you'd ever let your cards run on ebay.

I do not cross platform endorse my products! Again, that was your assumption!

of course you do. You list on ebay, cancel your ebay listing when you sell it on FB.

I CAN sell my product anywhere I choose! Ebay's TOS Does NOT state that I cannot sell elsewhere! If it does, show me, as I cannot locate that specific language you speak of!

if you sell on FB, don't list the card on ebay to generate interest in completing the trade on FB. It's apparently sellers like you that caused ebay to change their TOS so they aren't promoting off-ebay sales without getting anything from it between the free ebay listing you get and the lack of FVF since it's sold off platform.

[/quote]Ebay gives specific instructions on how to end listings early, what fees will be associated (IF ANY) with ending early![/QUOTE]

and that's what they are tightening up on starting November 1st due to abuse of their website. You can cancel it now but they get the legal right
in November to determine whether or not they collect a FVF from you for canceling your listing because they think you are completing a sale offsite.

I'd also disagree with your statement about ending an auction early with zero bids because there are probably snipers standing by at the end of the auction to give your item bids so you don't know for sure there are zero bids on your item.
 
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rsmath

Active member
Nov 8, 2008
6,086
1
I know u don't work for ebay so I'm not expecting u to have the sure answer but let's say I have a card listed for $350. It's something with a real value or maybe 100. I make a 100 dollar trade and pay 350 FV?

I imagine ebay will charge FVF on recent completed sales or use a well know, established price guide like beckett to give an estimated value to calculate the FVF.

Obviously what you do is don't list the item on ebay and post your FS/trade only on BO, Twitter, FB, whatever and complete it there without involving ebay.
 

TNP777

New member
Aug 7, 2008
3,528
1
the 209
I'm pretty sure the FVF will only be charged if, and only if, a seller had contact with a prospective buyer using eBay's messaging system about a product the seller was offering, and then said product all of a sudden was no longer for sale.

Without that verifiable contact through eBay, there's no way for them to legally prove or even assume that the product was somehow sold or traded or lost in a fire/flood or pulled back because the seller simply changed their mind about selling the item.

That allows us to cross-promote our items anywhere we want: on our personal web sites (like 4SC does) or Facebook groups or message boards or anywhere else. None of those buy/sell/trade discussions are initiated using eBay's messaging system, therefore no eBay terms of service are violated.

That's my take, anyway.
 

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