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Thread: 2018 Modern Baseball Era Ballot (HOF)

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    Senior Member MaineMule's Avatar
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    2018 Modern Baseball Era Ballot (HOF)

    https://baseballhall.org/modern-base...ra-ballot-2018

    Miller should be elected, which has been the cry for several prior appearances on these special ballots.

    In order, the likelihood of election for the players, I would say my top 3 would be Morris (top pitcher of 80's and 3 time WS winner), Trammell (way better numbers then several SS's- see Pee Wee Reese, Phil Rizzuto) and Ted Simmons (one of the top offensive catchers of all-time).

    I'm guessing none or only one of Morris or Trammell make it.....


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    Garvey would be the guy who would get my vote. Super clutch when moments were biggest. In addition to 1978 and 1984, he also would've won the NLCS MVP in 1974 had the award been in place then. Garvey is the NL Ironman. Also very cool that a team's spring training bat boy would ultimately end up being the face of the organization for many years. As a kid of the 70's, no other first baseman was on the same level as Garvey then. I grew up in Cincinnati, and Tony Perez, while a key cog of the Big Red Machine and ultimately a Hall of Famer, wasn't considered as being the same caliber as Garvey. The thing that ultimately hurts Garvey is the lack of milestone numbers. The Dodgers were committed to a platoon situation for his first three seasons, splitting time with Wes Parker and Bill Buckner. As far as dominance goes, in a game winning situation, Garvey was the guy a team wanted at the plate during the 70's.
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    that's a tough list. a couple are really close but Morris is the only guy that really jumps out at me. don't get me wrong, Garvey, Trammel and mattingly all have their argument but Morris gets my vote
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    Marvin Miller, Ted Simmons, and Trammell are three that jump out at me as snubs. Trammell being on the list and Lou Whitaker missing it is almost insulting.

    There are cases to be made for all the others thanks to borderline guys like Jim Rice and Andre Dawson getting in but I don't think that justifies putting in other borderline candidates.

    Marvin Miller - Yes. He should have been in a long time ago. This man, along with Curt Flood, shaped the game into what it is today.

    Steve Garvey - No. He wasn't even the best first baseman in a bad era for first basemen. Willie Stargell, Keith Hernandez, and Tony Perez were all better and Perez is another one of those borderline guys.

    Tommy John - No. I have to admit he was better than I thought but overall I don't think he's a Hall of Famer. He does however need a display in the HoF centered around the surgery named after him.

    Don Mattingly - No, sadly. If only he hadn't gotten hurt so much he probably would have been a First Ballot guy.

    Jack Morris - No. Game 7 in 1991 was great. Yes, he was the winningest pitcher in the 80s. He was also third in losses in the 80s. He had some Hall of Fame moments but not a Hall of Fame career.

    Dale Murphy - No, sadly. Love the guy and the way he played but he just didn't keep it going long enough. Great peak but the rest of his career drags him down.

    Dave Parker - No. Same story as Murph. What a cannon though in right field.

    Ted Simmons - Yes. Call it the curse of playing at the same time as Johnny Bench. Top 10 catcher of the modern era and he can't sniff the Hall. He should be in.

    Luis Tiant - No. Morris again. Great moments and some Hall of Fame seasons, but not a Hall of Fame career.

    Alan Trammell - Yes. He takes a hit because he played in an era of great shortstops but this guy could play with any of them. He and Lou Whitaker both need to be in the Hall.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardofOz1982 View Post
    Marvin Miller, Ted Simmons, and Trammell are three that jump out at me as snubs. Trammell being on the list and Lou Whitaker missing it is almost insulting.

    ...

    Alan Trammell - Yes. He takes a hit because he played in an era of great shortstops but this guy could play with any of them. He and Lou Whitaker both need to be in the Hall.
    Lou Whitaker missing this ballot is insulting. I'm not certain I would campaign for Whitaker to be in the HOF, but he belongs on this ballot. His career bWAR of 74.9 is higher than many of his contemporary 2B/SS who are in the HOF (Alomar - 66.8, Sandberg - 67.5, Larkin - 70.2) and is also higher than Trammell's bWAR of 70.4. Whitaker's career OPS+ of 117 is also higher than Alomar (116), Sandberg (114), Larkin (116), and Trammell (110).

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    Senior Member Austin's Avatar
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    I never understood why Barry Larkin and Roberto Alomar were considered slam dunk Hall of Famers, but Trammell and Whitaker weren't.

    Then you have the guys like Mattingly, Murphy, Garvey, Parker and Morris, who were superstars and considered definite Hall of Famers at their peaks, but either got hurt or hit a wall in the second half of their careers.
    Makes you think about today's superstars and how no one is a sure thing.
    Last edited by Austin; 11-07-2017 at 04:57 PM.
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    Anyone have any #'s about how many players by decade are represented in the HOF? I've heard the 80's are under-represented but I have not studied those demographics. Obviously careers span multiple decades. It seems that most of the names on this ballot outshine the lower-tier HOFers from other eras- Rizzuto, Reese, Kell, Mazeroski come to mind.


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    Dawson was a lock HOFer IMO.

    What I thought was insulting was that Ozzie, IMO a borderline guy, went in long before him despite both being eligible the same first year...
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    Despite my giant Alomar PC, I kinda agree with this. Between those 4 guys, I'd put them in this order:

    1. Larkin
    2. Alomar & Whitaker tie
    3. Trammell

    IMHO there were very few middle infielders better than Larkin in his era. Hell of a player. Alomar was flashier and had those postseason heroics, but those pesky advanced stats say Whitaker was the far better fielder. Trammell was awesome as well but I have him just a tick below the other three.

    Also I was a huge Dave Parker fan when I was a kid. Wish he could have sustained a better career but he just didn't feel like it. It was good to see him have that renaissance with the A's late in his career, but he's still just not a hall of famer. But at his peak I'd say he was better than any of the other guys. Cobra!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    I never understood why Barry Larkin and Roberto Alomar were considered slam dunk Hall of Famers, but Trammell and Whitaker weren't.

    Then you have the guys like Mattingly, Murphy, Garvey, Parker and Morris, who were superstars and considered definite Hall of Famers at their peaks, but either got hurt or hit a wall in the second half of their careers.
    Makes you think about today's superstars and how no one is a sure thing.
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    Junior Member forgerelli's Avatar
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    Miller, Trammell and Simmons for me. I would also vote for Whitaker. Maybe Luis Tiant, but I might be emotionally biased, I love that guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gt2590 View Post
    Dawson was a lock HOFer IMO.

    What I thought was insulting was that Ozzie, IMO a borderline guy, went in long before him despite both being eligible the same first year...
    Ozzie is the greatest defensive player of all time, regardless of position, and he was a league average hitter for his position. That's a lock Hall of Famer. Dawson wasn't even the best player at his position during his era.
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    Member mrmopar's Avatar
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    They were all very good players with fairly long careers, aside from maybe Mattingly who's was a bit shorter. We are quickly approaching 20,000 all time MLB players, of which 220 have been considered Hall of Famers. The rest are execs, managers, Negro Leaders, etc. My argument has always been that only about 1% of the players all time have made the hall of fame. That is an extremely elite category right there without downplaying the fact that every player can't be as amazing as Hank Aaron, Babe Ruth, Cy Young and other all time greats.

    It seems to bother me a little more each year as I hear and read these "expert" opinions that people just can't look past the fact that both Bill Mazeroski and Ty Cobb could be hall of famers, because their careers weren't equal. We clearly can't get past the fact that every hall of famer will not have been as great as Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron or Cy Young. Adding all of these "borderline" players (aside from Miller who was not a player, of course) would be perfectly fine in my book. These players certainly helped define the game for their generation far more than the 1000s of scrub players who took the field at the same times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UMich92 View Post
    Lou Whitaker missing this ballot is insulting. I'm not certain I would campaign for Whitaker to be in the HOF, but he belongs on this ballot. His career bWAR of 74.9 is higher than many of his contemporary 2B/SS who are in the HOF (Alomar - 66.8, Sandberg - 67.5, Larkin - 70.2) and is also higher than Trammell's bWAR of 70.4. Whitaker's career OPS+ of 117 is also higher than Alomar (116), Sandberg (114), Larkin (116), and Trammell (110).
    Hornsby, LaJoie, Collins, and Morgan are top 4 and there's really no argument to make. Grich is 5 for me and he should have gotten a lot more respect. He should be in the Hall of Fame too. Then I have Whitaker at 6 because there is a clump of guys around 70 fWAR but he's got the least PAs. I don't understand how on earth he was one and done on the ballot when he was better than guys like Biggio, Sandberg, and Lazzeri by a substantial margin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardofOz1982 View Post
    Ozzie is the greatest defensive player of all time, regardless of position, and he was a league average hitter for his position. That's a lock Hall of Famer. Dawson wasn't even the best player at his position during his era.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardofOz1982 View Post
    I don't understand how on earth he was one and done on the ballot when he was better than guys like Biggio, Sandberg, and Lazzeri by a substantial margin.
    That last statement is pretty ridiculous, and it's the kind of statement that makes people minimize WAR in general...
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