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Thread: GIANCARLO STANTON TRADED TO YANKEES FOR CASTRO/GUZMAN/DEVERS

  1. #106
    Senior Member Super Mario's Avatar
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    Wherever Lance Lynn signs he is going to get 100 million plus.

    If Mike Leake can get over 80 million, Lance Lynn will get over 100.





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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
    Wherever Lance Lynn signs he is going to get 100 million plus.

    If Mike Leake can get over 80 million, Lance Lynn will get over 100.
    Good for him. I hope he does. He won't earn it and the Cardinals shouldn't pay it while they're pitching rich. Mike Leake got that contract because he was the second best pitcher available in a weak class. It was Price and then a whole lot of yuck. Lynn is like the 4th or 5th best pitcher available this offseason.

    Most predictions have him around $14 million a year by the way. At that price the Cardinals should be in on him.
    Last edited by WizardofOz1982; 12-07-2017 at 05:29 PM.
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  3. #108
    Senior Member Super Mario's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardofOz1982 View Post
    Good for him. I hope he does. He won't earn it and the Cardinals shouldn't pay it while they're pitching rich. Mike Leake got that contract because he was the second best pitcher available in a weak class. It was Price and then a whole lot of yuck. Lynn is like the 4th or 5th best pitcher available this offseason.

    Most predictions have him around $14 million a year by the way. At that price the Cardinals should be in on him.
    I think if the Cardinals has any intention on keeping him around they wouldíve extended him before he hit free agency. He clearly didnít want to go anywhere, and they clearly have no issues with extending players mid-contract. They didnít it with Piscotty, Wong, Molina, and Wainwright I believe. And hell, they tried trading Stephen just a couple months after extending him.

    Lance Lynn should have been extended. I have more confidence in him being a solid, dependable starter for an entire season than I do anyone on the Cardinals staff. Is he an ace? No. But in my mind neither is Carlos Martinez. The Cardinals donít have an ace.





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  4. #109
    Senior Member Super Mario's Avatar
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    Thereís literally not one pitcher in the entire Cardinals organization that if Iím an opposing team Iím worried about facing. Thereís literally nobody that scares the opposition.

    Thatís not good.

    There are plenty of pitchers on the Cardinals who scare ME when they come into a game though. Waino, Wacha, Rosenthal (gone thankfully), Cecil.

    The pitching for the Cardinals sucks man.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
    I think if the Cardinals has any intention on keeping him around they would’ve extended him before he hit free agency. He clearly didn’t want to go anywhere, and they clearly have no issues with extending players mid-contract. They didn’t it with Piscotty, Wong, Molina, and Wainwright I believe. And hell, they tried trading Stephen just a couple months after extending him.

    Lance Lynn should have been extended. I have more confidence in him being a solid, dependable starter for an entire season than I do anyone on the Cardinals staff. Is he an ace? No. But in my mind neither is Carlos Martinez. The Cardinals don’t have an ace.

    Lynn refused to talk contract extension at all. He told them going back three seasons, even pre-JTS, that he was going to free agency at the end of the three year pre-arb deal he signed with them. There was never a contract extension signed because Lynn refused to talk about an extension.

    I like Lynn and agree he has been a very solid starter and could be again, assuming he comes all the way from TJS, which is in doubt after the year he had last year. He was much worse than the ERA would suggest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
    There’s literally not one pitcher in the entire Cardinals organization that if I’m an opposing team I’m worried about facing. There’s literally nobody that scares the opposition.

    That’s not good.

    There are plenty of pitchers on the Cardinals who scare ME when they come into a game though. Waino, Wacha, Rosenthal (gone thankfully), Cecil.

    The pitching for the Cardinals sucks man.
    I really don't think you realize how bad pitching is around the league right now and how good the Cardinals actually have it.

    Waino? I'll give you this one though he was hurt. He's at the end of his career and everyone knows it.

    Wacha? You're wrong. There's no argument I can make that you'll believe because you aren't being objective, but you're wrong. Top 25 starter in all of baseball and on a lot of teams he'd be their #1 starter with good reason.

    Rosenthal? He's been one of the 10 or so best relievers in all of baseball the last 5 years. Wow. I wish they'd resigned him to a two year incentive loaded contract. Elite K-rate and above average walk rate.

    Cecil? Still one of the top 40 RPs in baseball last year. He had some spectacularly bad outings early in the year then was his normal top 25 RP self the rest of the season. He had a better year last year than many elite closers like Wade Davis and Greg Holland.

    The Cardinals pitching staff overall was 10th in ERA, 10th in fWAR, and 8th in FIP. They had a league average offense, were 18th in HRs, 17th in slugging %, and 10th in wOBA. When you have a middling offense but an above average pitching staff, especially with more highly rated pitching on the way, then you upgrade the offense and let a Lance Lynn walk.
    Last edited by WizardofOz1982; 12-07-2017 at 06:08 PM.
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  6. #111
    Senior Member Super Mario's Avatar
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    I donít know where all the information is coming from about Lynn not wanting to talk contract, but he was very very very vocal all season long saying he wasnít going to be traded and was confident he would work out a contract with the Cardinals.

    The Cardinals were clear in their desire to not have him back, proven by their choice to not offer him an extension.

    Lynnís sadly better than any starter the Cardinals have right now.

    They need to try and make a move for a legitimate power bat and a legitimate ace. Neither of which they have, and desperately need.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
    I don’t know where all the information is coming from about Lynn not wanting to talk contract, but he was very very very vocal all season long saying he wasn’t going to be traded and was confident he would work out a contract with the Cardinals.

    The Cardinals were clear in their desire to not have him back, proven by their choice to not offer him an extension.

    Lynn’s sadly better than any starter the Cardinals have right now.

    They need to try and make a move for a legitimate power bat and a legitimate ace. Neither of which they have, and desperately need.
    Lynn has never been better than Martinez, no matter what metric you want to use. Lynn and Wacha are very similar with Wacha having age on his side.

    The free agency thing with Lynn has been all over social media the last three years. The "Wish I could stay here" stuff didn't start until like September of 2017 when he realized he was actually staring free agency in the face coming off a down year.

    There are about five legitimate "Aces", at least in the context you're talking about, in all of baseball right now. Would you like the Cardinals to get Clayton Kershaw, Chris Sale, Corey Kluber, Carlos Carrasco, or Max Scherzer? What do you mean none of those guys are available?

    I want the Cardinals to have as many top 25 starters as they can. They already have two in Martinez and Wacha. Luke Weaver was on a 4 fWAR pace which puts him close to the top 10 and none of his peripherals are unsustainable, if anything he was unlucky.

    Martinez led the NL in complete games and shut outs (3rd in MLB in both). He was 4th in the NL in strikeouts (10th overall). He was second in the NL in innings pitched (5th Overall). I'm not sure what criteria you set for "feared" and "Ace" but he's dominant and everybody that digs in against him knows it is going to be a battle. I doubt you find a single clubhouse in the National League that shares your opinion that he doesn't scare anyone.

    Couple of Stat Lines for you.

    W L G GS IP K/9 BB/9 HR/9 BABIP LOB% GB% HR/FB ERA FIP xFIP
    Player A: 10 12 31 31 186.2 10.08 2.80 1.30 .283 75.6 % 40.7 % 15.1 % 3.86 3.83 3.65
    Player B: 12 11 32 32 205.0 9.53 3.12 1.19 .284 74.9 % 51.3 % 16.4 % 3.64 3.91 3.63
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  8. #113
    Senior Member Super Mario's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardofOz1982 View Post
    Lynn has never been better than Martinez, no matter what metric you want to use. Lynn and Wacha are very similar with Wacha having age on his side.

    The free agency thing with Lynn has been all over social media the last three years. The "Wish I could stay here" stuff didn't start until like September of 2017 when he realized he was actually staring free agency in the face coming off a down year.

    There are about five legitimate "Aces", at least in the context you're talking about, in all of baseball right now. Would you like the Cardinals to get Clayton Kershaw, Chris Sale, Corey Kluber, Carlos Carrasco, or Max Scherzer? What do you mean none of those guys are available?

    I want the Cardinals to have as many top 25 starters as they can. They already have two in Martinez and Wacha. Luke Weaver was on a 4 fWAR pace which puts him close to the top 10 and none of his peripherals are unsustainable, if anything he was unlucky.

    Martinez led the NL in complete games and shut outs (3rd in MLB in both). He was 4th in the NL in strikeouts (10th overall). He was second in the NL in innings pitched (5th Overall). I'm not sure what criteria you set for "feared" and "Ace" but he's dominant and everybody that digs in against him knows it is going to be a battle. I doubt you find a single clubhouse in the National League that shares your opinion that he doesn't scare anyone.

    Couple of Stat Lines for you.

    W L G GS IP K/9 BB/9 HR/9 BABIP LOB% GB% HR/FB ERA FIP xFIP
    Player A: 10 12 31 31 186.2 10.08 2.80 1.30 .283 75.6 % 40.7 % 15.1 % 3.86 3.83 3.65
    Player B: 12 11 32 32 205.0 9.53 3.12 1.19 .284 74.9 % 51.3 % 16.4 % 3.64 3.91 3.63
    They SHOULD have Scherzer right now, and if they werenít so cheap at the time they could have had him. He clearly wanted to sign here.





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  9. #114
    Senior Member death2redemptions's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
    I do hope the Cardinals get him, but I’m not going to be upset in the slightest if they don’t.

    If Stanton goes to the Giants or Dodgers, that works for me too because it’s going to really hurt both of those franchises financially for years, so that’s a win for the Cardinals too.

    St. Louis’ financial situation for the next several years is fantastic, and then taking on Stanton’s contract wouldn’t be that big of a hit.

    But the way I look at it, wherever Stanton lands except for the Dodgers, it’s just going to be a three year deal anyway.

    This will really hurt the Giants if he goes there though.
    As a D-Backs fan I'm with you on the Giants. Stanton may have an immediate impact but their financial situation is going to kill them long term.

    Quote Originally Posted by WizardofOz1982 View Post
    I'm hoping the Cards get him but if they don't I'm sure they'll pivot and grab Yelich, Ozuna, or Donaldson. They can't afford to stand pat again this year with the fanbase starting to get a bit unruly about always finishing as runner-up in big trades/FA signings.
    Well, there is no doubt Stanton's power would fill a lot of seats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
    Wherever Lance Lynn signs he is going to get 100 million plus.

    If Mike Leake can get over 80 million, Lance Lynn will get over 100.
    Completely agree. Lynn is a far superior pitcher than Leake. I was amazed Leake received a contract that big but I guess that's just the direction the market is trending these days. Big money for pitchers.

    Having played 2 and a half fewer seasons than Leake, Lynn has already accumulated nearly 4 WAR more (although fangraphs has them with an identical WAR). Mike Leake relies on groundball outs & command because he doesn't really have much swing and miss stuff which is partly the reason Lynn has an ERA & FIP roughly .60 points lower.

    I'd imagine Lynn gets a contract within the 120 million range (20+ mil per season).
    Look, I'm gonna be honest with you. I really need a job. And I will take any position, as long as it doesn't involve having sex with old ladies for money or bear traps. Those are my two bugaboos. While mulling over my resume feel free to check out my baseball card collection, it's small and simple, kinda like me - >>>>> http://s822.photobucket.com/user/JDf...ds%20n%20stuff


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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
    They SHOULD have Scherzer right now, and if they weren’t so cheap at the time they could have had him. He clearly wanted to sign here.
    He clearly didn't or he would have. It's all well and good to play at home but you don't turn down $30 million to do so. The Nationals threw a top starting pitcher in baseball number at a guy who was a top 10-15 pitcher at the time and he improved (post age 30 which is historically unusual) after signing. The Nats got lucky. The list of pitchers post age 30 who have improved as much as Scherzer has is populated by Randy Johnson, Scherzer, and absolutely no one else in the 130+ year history of the sport.

    This idea that they're cheap is odd to me. In the last three offseasons they've made record (for the Cardinals) competitive offers to Jason Heyward (thank God he didn't sign), David Price (Thank God Dave Dombrowski did dumb Dave Dombrowski things), signed Mike Leake (the second best pitcher on the market, albeit a weak market), and Dexter Fowler (the top available free agent in his class). Now they are aggressively chasing the man with the biggest contract in baseball. None of those moves seems cheap to me.

    By the way, the Player A you ignored earlier because it destroys your arguments about signing a FA ace is Yu Darvish. Player B is Carlos Martinez.
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  11. #116
    Senior Member aarne13's Avatar
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    Dodgers,Yankees,Cubs and Astros are on the approval list for Stanton. He has not given the approval for the Giants and Cardinals.
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  12. #117
    Senior Member joey12508's Avatar
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    Dont think the yanks would do it. but theres talk ellsbury would have to be part of it along with castro and gardner no prospects.

  13. #118
    Senior Member Jaypers's Avatar
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    Stanton has informed the Cardinals he won't waive his no-trade to come to St. Louis.

    They're officially out.

    Cubs fans can breathe a sigh of relief.

    @Super Mario
    J.P.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey12508 View Post
    Dont think the yanks would do it. but theres talk ellsbury would have to be part of it along with castro and gardner no prospects.
    Don't understand how that makes sense unless the Yankees ate all the salaries on both sides. Miami is trying to shed payroll, not add it.

    Can't say I'm surprised he won't waive his no trade clause for St. Louis. I wouldn't want to play on the coast and lose versus playing in St. Louis and being competitive year in and out for the next three but I'm not the $300 million dollar man either. Hopefully the Cards already have a contingency trade in place for Yelich, Ozuna, or Donaldson.
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  15. #120
    Senior Member MojoDan's Avatar
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    I was hoping he would land in STL, just because the division is full of parks where the ball carries. I thought it would be great to see what he could pile up statistically with the Cardinals.

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