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No love for Beltran?

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smapdi

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
4,397
221
Still an effective hitter, I'm surprised at his totals. 2725 hits, 435 homers, 1587 RBI. But yeah, he was fairly anemic this year, and there's no better time to leave if you're gonna leave. I heard he's interested in the Yankees manager job (BTW, so am I, just saying).
 

moxacaine

Active member
Administrator
Aug 7, 2008
17,349
2
Fredericksburg, VA
he will end up in the hall of fame but I don't think he should be. he was always a good player though and am happy he got to end his career with a championship.
 

MatthewN

Active member
Sep 30, 2015
257
47
Coralville, IA
Sad day for the 2002 Twins/Royals lineup card I have on the wall in the basement.

It took a while, but I believe everybody is now retired (excluding guys who manage).

Had a pretty good run with Hawkins, Ortiz, Pierzynski, Beltran, Ibanez though.

38416278441_5c4223534b_z.jpg
 

WCTYSON

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2014
7,364
171
he will end up in the hall of fame but I don't think he should be. he was always a good player though and am happy he got to end his career with a championship.

One of only five players in MLB history with 400+ HR and 300+ SB. Yes, he’s in and should be.
 

moxacaine

Active member
Administrator
Aug 7, 2008
17,349
2
Fredericksburg, VA
One of only five players in MLB history with 400+ HR and 300+ SB. Yes, he’s in and should be.

I know I'm in the minority. I'm pretty firm on believing he does not belong. but then again I think at least a quarter of the people in the HOF shouldn't be there and that the whole thing is a joke. but that's a debate for another day.
 

AnthonyCorona

Well-known member
Oct 6, 2014
9,600
68
Modesto, CA
Great player but I think his most famous moment isn't his best
f6eb0a2423a7ab270b2fb8d2962a16ec.jpg


Bring me your Bickford, Ryan McMahon, Senzatela and Peter Lambert cards
 

death2redemptions

New member
Feb 4, 2016
12,488
0
The Carolina on the Southern side
One of only five players in MLB history with 400+ HR and 300+ SB. Yes, he’s in and should be.

I did not know this.

In my mind he's like Adrian Beltre. A player who throughout his career has accumulated the sort of stats that are Hall of Fame worthy but because he was never the best player in the league at any given time or received much media attention there are still many fans who don't perceive him to be a HOF player.

I do believe he's worthy of the HOF but it may take some time before he gets in.
 

Austin

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
5,706
41
Dallas, Texas
He's one of those very good players who compiled great overall numbers over a long career.
But at no point during his playing career did I ever think he was a Hall of Famer. Few people did.

He never led the league in anything but games played once, and was only Top 10 in MVP votes twice in 20 years.

The difference in a Hall of Famer with similar or lesser career stats like Dawson, Rice, Billy Williams, Cepeda, etc. is that they were dominate players. Beltran wasn't.

But he'll eventually get elected because of his gaudy compiled numbers, especially being among the few with 1,500 runs, 1,500 rbi, 400 homers, 300 steals and 2,500 hits. That's impressive and definitely worthy of being elected.
 

bstanwood

Well-known member
Sep 24, 2016
3,666
332
Mystic, CT
I won't be surprised or upset if he makes it into the HOF one day but I wouldn't vote him in. He has been a good all around player for a long time as his numbers show, no debate there, but he was never really in the conversation for best at his position, that's where I make a difference between him and Beltre. For me there is a large chunk of time you could make the argument that Beltre was the best third baseman, maybe he was, maybe he wasn't but the case can be made. Was Beltran ever even a top 3 outfielder?
Again, he's been good for a long time and that is nothing to sneeze at but for me he is in the first tier of players that get left out.
 

Topnotchsy

Featured Contributor, The best players in history?
Aug 7, 2008
9,446
168
Congrats on Beltran who from all I've heard has always been a class act. He had excellent regular season stats as a CF for a very long time, and was great in the Playoffs.

I think he should be a Hall of Famer personally. He has some of the best numbers as a center fielder of all-time.
 

WizardofOz1982

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2017
1,736
1,498
Oklahoma
He's one of those very good players who compiled great overall numbers over a long career.
But at no point during his playing career did I ever think he was a Hall of Famer. Few people did.

He never led the league in anything but games played once, and was only Top 10 in MVP votes twice in 20 years.

The difference in a Hall of Famer with similar or lesser career stats like Dawson, Rice, Billy Williams, Cepeda, etc. is that they were dominate players. Beltran wasn't.

But he'll eventually get elected because of his gaudy compiled numbers, especially being among the few with 1,500 runs, 1,500 rbi, 400 homers, 300 steals and 2,500 hits. That's impressive and definitely worthy of being elected.

He was the best center fielder in baseball for more than a decade from 1999 - 2009. Andruw Jones is a close second over that time period. He's the ninth best CF of all time by fWAR and 6th best by fWAR in the modern era (1919 - present). If you don't think that's Hall of Fame worthy then you might as well throw out 80% of the people currently in the Hall. He wasn't necessarily flashy like Andruw Jones or Jim Edmonds (who should have gotten more chances on the ballot) but he was better than both during their respective peaks, which all more or less line up.
 

forgerelli

Member
Apr 4, 2013
383
8
No offense to the poster above, but whenever someone says the word "compile" in any of its iterations, during a hall of fame discussion, I just roll my eyes and walk away.

The hall of fame has not been Dimaggio, Mays, Wagner, Ruth and Mathewson level players since 1945. There are a lot of mistakes that have been made, adding Beltran is nowhere near a mistake.

Scott F
 

Austin

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
5,706
41
Dallas, Texas
The hall of fame has not been Dimaggio, Mays, Wagner, Ruth and Mathewson level players since 1945.
There hasn't been a Mays or Wagner level of player since 1945? You're discounting the upper-tier greats of the '50s and '60s like Musial, Aaron, Mantle, Koufax, Spahn and tons more.

And non-steroid modern players like Griffey, Pujols, Maddox, Gwynn, Cabrera, Pedro and Randy Johnson all belong in that upper-tier of the Hall of Fame along with Mays and certainly Wagner.
 
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Topnotchsy

Featured Contributor, The best players in history?
Aug 7, 2008
9,446
168
There hasn't been a Mays or Wagner level of player since 1945? You're discounting the upper-tier greats of the '50s and '60s like Musial, Aaron, Mantle, Koufax, Spahn and tons more.

And non-steroid modern players like Griffey, Pujols, Maddox, Gwynn, Cabrera, Pedro and Randy Johnson all belong in that upper-tier of the Hall of Fame along with Mays and certainly Wagner.

I may have read him wrong, but I think he meant that the HOF was not limited to that level of player since 1945, not that there haven't been inner circle players since.
 

Austin

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
5,706
41
Dallas, Texas
I may have read him wrong, but I think he meant that the HOF was not limited to that level of player since 1945, not that there haven't been inner circle players since.
The wording and the 1945 date is what confused me, although he probably just threw a date out there.

HOF voting only started in 1936 and there weren't even HOF elections in '40, '41, '43 and '44 because of rule changes, voter confusion and the new museum being built. In '42 only Hornsby was chosen.

So with elections in only '36-'39 and '42, there were many elections beyond '45 that contained only the greatest of the greats since voters had an enormous backlog of 70+ years of legends to choose from.

Regardless, as I wrote, I do believe Beltran is a Hall of Famer, even though it didn't become apparent until his career was almost finished.
 
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