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HOF '18 Results (43%)

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Mighty Bombjack

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
6,115
12
Very nice Scott! Cards and 3x5s, well done.

I have certified cards of all four, but I still haven't moved my pics from photobucket so I can't show them off.
 

MaineMule

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
5,454
0
Maine of course......
Very nice Scott! Cards and 3x5s, well done.

I have certified cards of all four, but I still haven't moved my pics from photobucket so I can't show them off.

Wayne, hope you are well! No vintage additions for me recently- still angling for a nice Cy Young.

You can upload directly from your computer if you have the pics on your computer.
 

sportscardtheory

Active member
Aug 16, 2008
8,461
2
Buffalo, New York
I don't really think there is an argument to be made that Hoffman was a better pitcher than Wagner unless your only data point is SV total. Wagner is pretty much better across the board at everything else.

Not to mention if Wagner would have played just two more season he would technically (1,000+ innings pitched needed) own the all-time record for strikeouts per-9 innings pitched.
 
Last edited:

forgerelli

Member
Apr 4, 2013
383
8
Until baseball has the player with the most hits and most homeruns that museum is worthless. It's a museum, it's not an homage to the greatest human beings, it's the greatest baseball players. Rose, Bonds and Clemens should be in. No one knows every single player who gambled or took any PED. Maybe Chip did, maybe Thome, Piazza, Bagwell and others did. Keeping the best pitcher and hitter of their generations out is moronic

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

Totally disagree on Rose. He can never ever be allowed in the hall. Ever. Say whatever you want about PED guys but they were trying to improve their performance, be better on the field, and win more games. What Rose did is the absolute worst thing any competitor can do in sports. Same with the Black Sox. Worse than being a racist, cheater, or anything else. It's THE cardinal sin in sports.

People today just don't realize how cancerous gambling is to sports. It almost killed professional baseball, several times. If the public thinks the games are fixed it might as well be pro wrestling.

Rose agreed to his banishment, admitting his guilt, and then lied about it for decades. He cheated and lied to the fans and the fans that still love him, in my opinion, are the same as the battered wife that keeps going back to the abusive husband.

Scott F
 

AnthonyCorona

Well-known member
Oct 6, 2014
9,600
68
Modesto, CA
Totally disagree on Rose. He can never ever be allowed in the hall. Ever. Say whatever you want about PED guys but they were trying to improve their performance, be better on the field, and win more games. What Rose did is the absolute worst thing any competitor can do in sports. Same with the Black Sox. Worse than being a racist, cheater, or anything else. It's THE cardinal sin in sports.

People today just don't realize how cancerous gambling is to sports. It almost killed professional baseball, several times. If the public thinks the games are fixed it might as well be pro wrestling.

Rose agreed to his banishment, admitting his guilt, and then lied about it for decades. He cheated and lied to the fans and the fans that still love him, in my opinion, are the same as the battered wife that keeps going back to the abusive husband.

Scott F
I think it all comes down to Rose having the most hits ever. Had he bet against his own team and threw games I would agree but how can u have a museum of greats and not acknowledge him? Again, not a good guy but great ball player.

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Austin

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
5,706
41
Dallas, Texas
Until baseball has the player with the most hits and most homeruns that museum is worthless. It's a museum
I think it all comes down to Rose having the most hits ever. How can u have a museum of greats and not acknowledge him?
Pete Rose and Barry Bonds both have displays in the Hall of Fame commemorating their records. The Hall of Fame doesn't ignore them or disregard their accomplishments. Rose and Bonds just don't have plaques, but they are recognized as record holders and have displays and memorabilia.

Like you wrote, it's a museum, and it documents all great players and their accomplishments. People act like the HOF acts like cheaters don't exist, and that's not true.
 

Mighty Bombjack

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
6,115
12
Totally disagree on Rose. He can never ever be allowed in the hall. Ever. Say whatever you want about PED guys but they were trying to improve their performance, be better on the field, and win more games. What Rose did is the absolute worst thing any competitor can do in sports. Same with the Black Sox. Worse than being a racist, cheater, or anything else. It's THE cardinal sin in sports.

People today just don't realize how cancerous gambling is to sports. It almost killed professional baseball, several times. If the public thinks the games are fixed it might as well be pro wrestling.

Rose agreed to his banishment, admitting his guilt, and then lied about it for decades. He cheated and lied to the fans and the fans that still love him, in my opinion, are the same as the battered wife that keeps going back to the abusive husband.

Scott F

Amen! I am totally with you here, man. I tell this to people all the time. If we extended PED use to its natural conclusion, the game on the field would probably become a better product and even more competitive overall (there are still issues with allowing drug use, which include the effect on society and the game's history, I recognize that). But if we extended Rose's actions, you lose the sport entirely as a game/sport, ending up with scripted exhibitions a la pro wrestling.

Again, we can argue PEDs, but that and gambling shouldn't be argued together. They are vastly different.

Full disclosure: I'd vote for Bonds and Clemens if given the chance. With Rose, I'm not so sure...
 

Mighty Bombjack

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
6,115
12
I think it all comes down to Rose having the most hits ever. Had he bet against his own team and threw games I would agree but how can u have a museum of greats and not acknowledge him? Again, not a good guy but great ball player.

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The thing is, you can't allow it at all. I mean, I don't think we can ever really know if Rose bet against hs own team directly, but we can deduce that his decision making was different in games that he had money on and games that he did not. Like, if he bet on his own team occasionally, and not every day, was he using his bullpen to its maximum efficiency on those off days? I doubt it.

Then there are the issues that gamblers have a tendency to lose, and then go into debt, and then the people that they owe debt to are taking bets on games, so they have special ways that a guy like Rose could pay his debt back. I have no idea how close to this scenario we ever got, but the point is that once somebody bets on professional sports, their involvement with that sport HAS TO end.

And have you been to the HOF? Rose is all over it, jerseys, bats, photos, everything. His role in the history of the game isn't denied there. He just doesn't have a plaque in the main hall. EDIT TO ADD that Austin made the point above already.
 

forgerelli

Member
Apr 4, 2013
383
8
I think it all comes down to Rose having the most hits ever. Had he bet against his own team and threw games I would agree but how can u have a museum of greats and not acknowledge him? Again, not a good guy but great ball player.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

Please don't think I'm picking on you, this is just something I feel very strongly about.

The argument that Rose only bet on his team to win is very flawed. First, I'm not sure that's true, but more importantly it's meaningless.

Think of it this way: I'm the manager of the Yankees in 2007 and I have a bet on today's game. It's the 7th inning and we have a 1 run lead and 2 outs. The starter gives up 2 walks, what am I going to do? Bring in Mariano. He saves the game and we win. Yay! However, I can't use Mo for the next game. So because I had money on that game I did everything I could to win and left my team at a disadvantage for the next game. It's essentially the same thing as throwing games.

There were also many, many rumors about Rose betting on games as early as the mid 70's.

This also doesn't take into account the fact that he opened himself up to blackmail.

Pete Rose is NOT a victim. He's the culprit.

Scott F
 

forgerelli

Member
Apr 4, 2013
383
8
One more point on the integrity of the game. There is an argument to be made against all of the owners that were involved with the collusion in the mid 80's. They purposely didn't improve their teams. It's not exactly the same thing but it's still really bad.

Scott F
 

nosterbor

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2010
6,099
431
Sunny Florida
One more point on the integrity of the game. There is an argument to be made against all of the owners that were involved with the collusion in the mid 80's. They purposely didn't improve their teams. It's not exactly the same thing but it's still really bad.

Scott F
80's? How about the last 10 years. The Astros are one!
 

forgerelli

Member
Apr 4, 2013
383
8
80's? How about the last 10 years. The Astros are one!

Very true! Even though I like some of their players I had to root against them in the World Series. MLB has to implement a rule that all the revenue sharing money has to go back into the team. At least Loria is out of baseball, he was the worst offender with this.

Scott F
 

smapdi

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
4,397
221
Looking at the results every year, I'm amazed at the lack of support some people get. Not that I think Damon or Santana or Moyer should be elected, but that not even 1 in 20 people voted for them is always surprising.

The other thing that always surprises me is the names that are newly eligible. I could swear it was like two years ago that people were celebrating Moyer being the oldest pitcher to do whatever he did. But no, it was 2012. Same with Carlos Lee or Aubrey Huff. I could swear I was JUST WATCHING THEM. On the other hand, Kevin Millwood is a name that evokes the same feeling of temporal distance that someone like Billy Pierce or Bobby Schantz does. He ONLY retired 5 years ago?
 

WizardofOz1982

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2017
1,736
1,498
Oklahoma
Very true! Even though I like some of their players I had to root against them in the World Series. MLB has to implement a rule that all the revenue sharing money has to go back into the team. At least Loria is out of baseball, he was the worst offender with this.

Scott F

I don't have any issues with what the Astros did. They were well within the system and their choice was pretty well remain a middle of the pack team with a bad payroll or blow it all up and hope for draft picks to pan out and give them a 5-6 year window. It worked but it doesn't always.
 

forgerelli

Member
Apr 4, 2013
383
8
I don't have any issues with what the Astros did. They were well within the system and their choice was pretty well remain a middle of the pack team with a bad payroll or blow it all up and hope for draft picks to pan out and give them a 5-6 year window. It worked but it doesn't always.

You're absolutely right, but I do think there should be a rule against pocketing the "welfare" money you get from being a bad team. I'd be fine with the money, if not used, going back into a pool of sorts. As a Yankee fan I know all about people getting mad at a team even though they're still within the rules. I'm just glad I was born a Yankee fan where my team gets hated because they do too much, rather than not enough.

Scott F
 

forgerelli

Member
Apr 4, 2013
383
8
Looking at the results every year, I'm amazed at the lack of support some people get. Not that I think Damon or Santana or Moyer should be elected, but that not even 1 in 20 people voted for them is always surprising.

The other thing that always surprises me is the names that are newly eligible. I could swear it was like two years ago that people were celebrating Moyer being the oldest pitcher to do whatever he did. But no, it was 2012. Same with Carlos Lee or Aubrey Huff. I could swear I was JUST WATCHING THEM. On the other hand, Kevin Millwood is a name that evokes the same feeling of temporal distance that someone like Billy Pierce or Bobby Schantz does. He ONLY retired 5 years ago?

The HOF is filled with guys like Johhny Damon and Johan Santana. If they were voted in I don't think either one of them would be a worse selection than Jack Morris.

Scott F
 

WizardofOz1982

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2017
1,736
1,498
Oklahoma
You're absolutely right, but I do think there should be a rule against pocketing the "welfare" money you get from being a bad team. I'd be fine with the money, if not used, going back into a pool of sorts. As a Yankee fan I know all about people getting mad at a team even though they're still within the rules. I'm just glad I was born a Yankee fan where my team gets hated because they do too much, rather than not enough.

Scott F

I don't have a problem with the Yankees spending into oblivion either. It works out just about as well normally as tanking. It buys you a window and that is it.
 

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