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MLB commissioner reportedly pressuring Indians to get rid of the Chief Wahoo logo

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michaelstepper

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2010
8,211
519
southeast Alaska
That's been floated around for years but I don't think there is any truth to it. The contemporary papers don't mention anything about Sockalexis when the change was made. As for the name, I couldn't care less. I'm Cherokee and Choctaw. My wife is Cherokee and Creek. Neither of us care or find it offensive. I've never met a Cherokee tribal member, and I live in the capital of the Cherokee Nation, that has ever mentioned being offended by a sports teams name or logo.

I'm not native but living in Alaska almost all the people I know or are friends with are native in some way. Not once has any of them ever mentioned in any way being offended by any sports team name or logo past or present.
 

joey12508

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
38,450
16,111
Winterfell

5BkwhNp.jpg
 

forgerelli

Member
Apr 4, 2013
383
8
There is no difference between any of those ballcaps. They are all ugly stereotypes. Just because the Indians logo has been socially accepted by most it doesn't lessen or diminish the racist connotations. I have seen comments on various forums from Native Americans saying that they don't have a problem with it- that still doesn't mean that it is ok. You can find many minorities that say they don't have a problem with racial slurs. In reality many do have a problem, they just can't speak out. Most non-ethnic people just don't understand. Not that they lack empathy- they just haven't experienced racism first-hand.

Agree, 100%.

I'm NOT looking to get into any arguments, or really any big discussion on this issue, because I really don't care that much. However I saw a funny reaction to someone going nutso over them changing the logo: "Change fearing snowflake". There are "snowflakes" on both side of these issues. I'm a comic collector and there's a HUGE argument about this kind of stuff. People went absolutely apesh!t when a black girl started wearing an Iron Man suit. Like it somehow meant they were never going to see Tony Stark again, or that Marvel was killing their childhood.

I'm just sick of hearing from whiny children (or snowflakes) throwing social media temper tantrums when things happen that they don't like. Both sides of almost every one of these issues are equally guilty of this.

Scott F
 

mrmopar

Member
Jan 19, 2010
6,187
4,087
That might offend spiders not native to the Cleveland area. I mean, what LA or NY hatched spider for example wants to be associated with Cleveland?

Cleveland Spiders would be cool imo.
View attachment 76687

I can see more reasons for the Redskins being pressured harder, as the nickname itself can be consider derogatory along with the logo, but that is getting media attention as well.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marced...lone-in-political-incorrectness/#1b3945a629a3

Everyone has a side and your perspective may change based on your ethnicity and personal experience. I would look to the use of something like a logo, nickname or any other "thing" that has come to offend someone and see if there was any intent to be malicious in it's use. Hurtful names/slurs were certainly used with intent to harm. Did a business select a name or logo to hurt or exclude any potential customer base? Probably not, but I do not know why the owners came up with some of these names. It may not provide enough reason to continue using it if people are offended, but then again, those offended could speak with their money too. The Redskins name and image is a valuable commodity. People are obviously paying millions for merchandise and if sales were to mirror popularity vs offense, it seems like one side is definitely speaking louder.

Most people just don't like change. I think losing a logo is emotional for most, but over time, it passes like anything else.

Final thought...I wonder why so many teams have a Native American theme anyway, if they are so offensive? It seems that naming a team after something would be an honor or a nod to historical significance. There are only so many animals to choose from, which seem to be the large majority of team nicknames.
 

JVHaste

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2015
4,751
270
Vancouver WA
That might offend spiders not native to the Cleveland area. I mean, what LA or NY hatched spider for example wants to be associated with Cleveland?

I was thinking it could offend leg amputees/ war heroes. 8 legs on the logo plus 2 legs on the player seems like flaunting it in their face. :rolleyes:
It also could offend people who have had a family member die from a poisonous spider.

So far the only non offensive option is that New York Jews logo... I bet they could do what the Angels did with their fake city change (LA Angels of Anaheim) . . . .


New York Jews of Cleveland.

0819eed413f9dc635b154687e6983149.jpg
 

Lancemountain

Active member
Apr 11, 2009
8,313
5
Philadelphia
I'd love for them to go back to being The Naps- would bring some history back to the game and we very much need.


The Chief Wahoo is a mischievous caricature of an entire "race"- I use race in parenthesis as there are so many cultures of Pre-European contact it's impossible to call all native populations one singular "race." Besides that point it's not meant to honor or be complimentary to the native people.

There are examples of native people that support specific college and pro mascots- this is not one of those cases. To all you white people here posting about your 1/64th of native blood or you posters from states with high native populations who "haven't heard anything about it"---racism and oppression isn't water cooler talk. For every person who is speaking out there are thousands who aren't.

Besides tradition, why would ANYONE defend this? Call me a snowflake all you want- changing the mascot to something less offensive isn't going to hurt anyone. We have a baseball team called The Indians (a misnomer) with a sneaky, back alley grin on his face. Time to move on.

And the Notre Dame comparison was very very very very dumb. Very.
 

linuxabuser

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2011
2,364
50
The whole "being offended" thing is tough to understand. On the one hand, yes, it does seem that people are too easily offended these days, and, I usually have a Bill Burr-like reaction to it. But on the other, it's refusing to sympathize with minorities, no matter how amorphously defined they are or how new they might seem, that leads to conflict. It's easy to say,"It's just a mascot," or "It's a tribute," or "It's historical," as if that gives the argument equal weight to some deep-seated emotions borne out of generations of abuse. But of all the people saying,"I don't see why it's offensive," how many of you are part of the subjected group? If you're a white, hetero male of Anglo-Saxon descent, which I imagine is the large majority of board users, there's no reason why you would understand why someone would be offended. I mean, I think the Chief Wahoo logo is pretty clearly not an honorific design, despite what white fans claim. But some also say the name "Braves" is offensive. I don't think the word "brave" is offensive, nor would using it as a title or descriptive be pejorative. But since I'm not a Native American, it is out of my experience, so who am I to say whether or not they "should" be offended?

Which one of these is not like the others?
View attachment 76674
If one is different from the others, I'd like to hear cogent explanations as to why you think that is.

Those are pretty ******* funny.
 

Austin

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
5,706
41
Dallas, Texas
Today, Jim Thome says he doesn't want the Chief Wahoo logo on his Hall of Fame plaque.

ESPN -- Incoming Hall of Famer Jim Thome said Friday that he does not want to be wearing a cap with the Chief Wahoo logo on his plaque in Cooperstown.

"I know my decision would be to wear the 'C' because I think it's the right thing to do," Thome said at an event in Cleveland. "I think I need to have a conversation with the Hall of Fame because of all the history and everything involved. I just think that's the right thing to do."

The Indians said Monday they are removing the Chief Wahoo logo from their jerseys and caps starting in the 2019 season. They have been wearing a cap featuring a block-C in recent years and phasing out caps with the logo.
 

Prophet

New member
Dec 5, 2017
93
0
Ohio
Cleveland should just bite the bullet and officially change the team's name to the Tribe and make the arm sleeves on the uniforms have the appearance of tribal tattoos.
 

WCTYSON

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2014
7,364
171
Today, Jim Thome says he doesn't want the Chief Wahoo logo on his Hall of Fame plaque.

ESPN -- Incoming Hall of Famer Jim Thome said Friday that he does not want to be wearing a cap with the Chief Wahoo logo on his plaque in Cooperstown.

"I know my decision would be to wear the 'C' because I think it's the right thing to do," Thome said at an event in Cleveland. "I think I need to have a conversation with the Hall of Fame because of all the history and everything involved. I just think that's the right thing to do."

The Indians said Monday they are removing the Chief Wahoo logo from their jerseys and caps starting in the 2019 season. They have been wearing a cap featuring a block-C in recent years and phasing out caps with the logo.

Class act.
 

Austin

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
5,706
41
Dallas, Texas
Here's an interesting tidbit from the Chief Wahoo Wikipedia page about the logo first appearing on the Indians caps in 1986:

[In the mid-80s] During his tenure as President of the Cleveland Indians baseball team, Peter Bavasi asked players how the team's uniforms should look. Bavasi has described Joe Carter and Pat Tabler suggesting that Chief Wahoo be added to the hats, with Tabler predicting that it would "sell like crazy".

Bavasi recalls expressing concern that it would offend Native American groups, but that player Bert Blyleven reassured him, "Nah, it shouldn't. Really looks like [general manager] Phil Seghi." Blyleven made a similar remark to Sports Illustrated, and the magazine described the resemblance as "uncanny".

Tabler's prediction was ultimately borne out, with hat sales increasing significantly after the reintroduction of Chief Wahoo.


cory-snyder-joe-carter-si-04-06-87.jpg
 
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Lancemountain

Active member
Apr 11, 2009
8,313
5
Philadelphia
My respect for him went up quite a bit. He didn't have to say anything, but the fact that he went out of his way to do this says a lot about his character.

Scott F

agree. He's one of the most likable players in the last 30 years and he's proven time and again he's just a great guy.
 

WizardofOz1982

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2017
1,736
1,498
Oklahoma
I'd love for them to go back to being The Naps- would bring some history back to the game and we very much need.


The Chief Wahoo is a mischievous caricature of an entire "race"- I use race in parenthesis as there are so many cultures of Pre-European contact it's impossible to call all native populations one singular "race." Besides that point it's not meant to honor or be complimentary to the native people.

There are examples of native people that support specific college and pro mascots- this is not one of those cases. To all you white people here posting about your 1/64th of native blood or you posters from states with high native populations who "haven't heard anything about it"---racism and oppression isn't water cooler talk. For every person who is speaking out there are thousands who aren't.

Besides tradition, why would ANYONE defend this? Call me a snowflake all you want- changing the mascot to something less offensive isn't going to hurt anyone. We have a baseball team called The Indians (a misnomer) with a sneaky, back alley grin on his face. Time to move on.

And the Notre Dame comparison was very very very very dumb. Very.

So unless a person has an undefined amount (by you) of blood quantum their opinion as a Native American holds no weight...good to know. So good of you to not discrimin....oh nevermind.
 

MGiuseffi

Member
Aug 22, 2008
388
0
I've never heard an irishman wanting Notre Dame to change their logo or name. I'm just sayin....

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

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