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Thread: Did I get hosed on BGS rounding?

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    Did I get hosed on BGS rounding?

    Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, but I just got a baseball submission back and I'm confused by a card because I feel like the overall grade is lower than I've ever seen in this situation.

    Here are the subgrades:

    Centering: 10
    Corner: 9
    Edges: 9.5
    Surface: 9

    This comes out to a total score of 37.5 which I've always seen rounded to a 9.5 on the overall grade. However, For this particular card I was given a 9 for overall instead of 9.5. Has anyone else seen this? Is it because there were two 9 subgrades instead of one 9 and 3 9.5s?

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    Rarely if ever will you see 2 x 9's get a 9.5

    In that case, your grade is accurate.

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    Senior Member AnthonyCorona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffv96masters View Post
    Pardon me but I've never seen that occur since BGS grading was introduced.

    The final grade is part of an algorithm that weights different sub grades to create a final grade
    Depending on the type of series each sub grade would carry different weight based on experiences with each set

    The ONLY methods for getting a Gem grade or higher are below

    Four subs of 9.5 or higher
    Three 9.5 subs and one 9 or higher sub

    And in very rare instances
    Three 10 subs and one 8.5 or higher sub ( must be 3 tens won't occur if any were 9.5)
    Listen to this. He definitely knows what he's talking about

    Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk
    Please note: Card collecting is my hobby, not my life. I don't take it that serious and like to keep it fun.

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    It's not a straight average, as you may have guessed. I think there is some sort of weighting, although I don't know if it's specific to a particular sub. They might sort the subs lowest to highest and weight them accordingly.
    9 * 0.4 = 3.6
    9 * 0.3 = 2.7
    9.5 * 0.2 = 1.9
    10 * 0.1 = 1
    Total = 9.2 ~ 9

    I think there are also some hard rules, like you won't see a total grade more than 1 point above the lowest sub. If you theoretically had a card grade 10/10/10/1, it would get a 2, not 8, 6.4, 5, or whatever.
    Looking for 2011 Topps Marquee Museum autographs, rare Frank Thomases and Grady Sizemores I don't have

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    I'd like to see examples.
    Looking for 2011 Topps Marquee Museum autographs, rare Frank Thomases and Grady Sizemores I don't have

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    Junior Member Letch77's Avatar
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    I wonder if it's like buying a car...don't have your cards graded on a Monday or a Friday!
    Wanting to buy '96 Select Certified Mirror Gold baseball...commons & stars

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    Senior Member WCTYSON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smapdi View Post
    I'd like to see examples.
    Me too.

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    Senior Member death2redemptions's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smapdi View Post
    It's not a straight average, as you may have guessed. I think there is some sort of weighting, although I don't know if it's specific to a particular sub. They might sort the subs lowest to highest and weight them accordingly.
    9 * 0.4 = 3.6
    9 * 0.3 = 2.7
    9.5 * 0.2 = 1.9
    10 * 0.1 = 1
    Total = 9.2 ~ 9

    I think there are also some hard rules, like you won't see a total grade more than 1 point above the lowest sub. If you theoretically had a card grade 10/10/10/1, it would get a 2, not 8, 6.4, 5, or whatever.
    Yeah, this is what I always assumed to be true.
    Look, I'm gonna be honest with you. I really need a job. And I will take any position, as long as it doesn't involve having sex with old ladies for money or bear traps. Those are my two bugaboos. While mulling over my resume feel free to check out my baseball card collection, it's small and simple, kinda like me - >>>>> http://s822.photobucket.com/user/JDf...ds%20n%20stuff


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    The Harper you link to is 10/10/10/8.5, with a final grade of 9.5, one point above the lowest sub, which is in line with what I'm talking about, so I'm not sure what you're getting at there. If the subs were sorted and weighted according to the theory:
    8.5 * .4 = 3.4
    10 * .3 = 3
    10 * .2 = 2
    10 * .1 = 1
    Sum = 9.4 ~ 9.5

    But here's one that is more what I'm talking about.

    Jordan Sticker

    Subs are 8/8/7.5/5.5, final grade 6.5. Three subs 2-2.5 above the lowest couldn't pull it up.
    5.5 * .4 = 2.2
    7.5 * .3 = 2.25
    8 * .2 = 1.6
    8 * .1 = .8
    Sum = 6.85, I'd expect ~ 7.0. But if there is a hard rule limiting the difference between lowest sub and final to 1.0, it'd be a 6.5

    Here's another.

    Subs are 6/9.5/9/8, final grade 7.0. Subs are between 2 and 3.5 above lowest.
    6 * .4 = 2.2
    8 * .3 = 2.4
    9 * .2 = 1.8
    9.5 * .1 = .95
    Sum = 7.55 ~ 7.5. Since it's only a 7, it again appears there's some other element involved, or the weighting is more complex than this.

    I've had probably a couple hundred cards graded with BGS since 1999. More than some, a tiny fraction of some others. My BGS experience has been with almost entirely modern, high-grade cards, and if the lowest grade I expect is a 9, this sort of issue doesn't come into play. And I imagine it's rare for a card to have a catastrophic problem in just one aspect, so something along the lines of 10/10/10/1 probably doesn't exist unless it was intentionally done. In their FAQ, Beckett uses this example:

    Also, please note that the final grade rarely, if ever, exceeds two levels above the lowest of the four characteristic grades. For example, if a card has characteristic grades of Centering 10, Corners 6, Edges 10 and Surface 10, the final grade will be a "7" (of which is exactly two grading levels above the lowest characteristic grade).
    According to the simple weighting, this card would be an 8.4~8.5. But something would hold it to a 7.0. Maybe there's a hard rule (which they seem to preclude in their qualification of "if ever"), maybe corners are weighted very harshly, maybe there's a different formula applied if there's a large difference in subs. Lots of possibilities.

    I wouldn't think about submitting an mid-grade card unless it was a vintage item, and even then I'd go with PSA. So my experience in mid-grade stuff is limited, and I never graded through BVG. It's possible I've just never come across an example. And it's also possible that they've changed things up over the years. It's quite possible that there are plenty of examples of >1.0 differences. I just don't remember ever seeing one, so I'm curious.
    Looking for 2011 Topps Marquee Museum autographs, rare Frank Thomases and Grady Sizemores I don't have

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    Jeff said most cases it would be vintage(BVG). To clarify it would be the older labels when they listed the sub grades. The GENERAL rule of thumb is the grade will not be more than one full grade above the lowest sub. Jeff has not submitted a few hundred cards to Beckett or PSA. He has submitted TENS of THOUSANDS of cards to be graded by both companies. He has seen tens of thousands of cards that he has not submitted. They are out there and I will try to find examples in my older cards to show what he is talking about. The Harper in question is a modern card and because you are dealing with the higher grades it came up the one full grade and not more.

    The Jordan sticker is a different animal. You are dealing with lower numbers. Bump the three higher sub grades up to a 9 and and lower the surface grade to a 4. You would most likely see that grade go up more than the one point above the lowest grade. Am I positive? No. But I am more sure of this than not. Just trying to show you where this would be different on a more "modern card".

    The second Jordan example you gave has different sub grades ranked. Because that centering is much lower and corners, that is why it didn't get pulled up either. Centering, especially on bordered cards will have a higher ranking along with corners. It is the eye appeal of the card that stands out more. A surface flaw that is more difficult to take away the eye appeal like on the Harper will not weigh the overall grade as much.

    I am not an expert, but I tend to understand the "general" knowledge of the grading process. Ask me to explain the algorithm and I am dumb as the day is long.

    Hope that helps a little.

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    Senior Member WCTYSON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffv96masters View Post
    Your misinformed = I've seen grades 1.5 pts higher tons of times . Particularly if you spot older BVG slabs with sub grades from the early 2000's. Along with many modern thick items as well.

    The algorithm of each card places weight on aspects of each card
    They always list them in the same order so no one can figure out which is weighted highest
    If you sub consistently however you'll know how to decipher which sub grades hold the most weight

    Without knowing the card involved the OP subbed = I wouldn't even hazard a guess what was weighted highest
    Generically speaking the "eye appeal" sub grades of corners and centering are "usually" the highest weighted
    But that's not always the case which is why I wouldn't prefer it as an answer without knowing the card issue the OP subbed

    Jeff
    You're

    And I must say, you're the one that is misinformed per usual.

    You said tons of examples, post them up. Should be easy.

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    Senior Member death2redemptions's Avatar
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    I really don't know about vintage, as I've never graded a card from a set earlier than 2004 but that tidbit from Beckett that smapdi quoted has always been what I assumed to be true and I have never seen anything to the contrary. At least with post-2000 cards, as I rarely venture around to graded vintage.
    Look, I'm gonna be honest with you. I really need a job. And I will take any position, as long as it doesn't involve having sex with old ladies for money or bear traps. Those are my two bugaboos. While mulling over my resume feel free to check out my baseball card collection, it's small and simple, kinda like me - >>>>> http://s822.photobucket.com/user/JDf...ds%20n%20stuff


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    I stand corrected on the point level= and I'll be the first to admit when incorrect on the 1.5 pts or higher


    A quick check of my pic database shows the 1 higher than the lowest to be the case sometimes
    And a quick check of my half a million slab file shows 1/2 point the norm

    I appreciated the corrections.

    Jeff
    Last edited by jeffv96masters; 04-13-2018 at 04:58 AM. Reason: correcting info




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