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Super Mario

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2009
18,242
85
Mushroom Kingdom
The amount of people who want this sh*tbag reinstated and inducted will always blow my mind.

The game of baseball is better off without Pete Rose.
 

gt2590

Super Moderator
Aug 17, 2008
38,656
3,240
Near Philly
Evidently he's not very good at it.

When we had him for a signing in the pre-Internrt days, he was continually checking the college football scores on a nearby TV...
 

finestkind

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2008
3,986
901
Massachusetts
Pete Rose has a deal where four fans have the opportunity to dine with, receive autographs from and pose for selfies with Rose for $5,000 — provided that the fans pick up the tab for the meal.
 

Letch77

Well-known member
Jan 28, 2018
1,608
353
Midwest
if he had got caught using drugs FIVE times nothing would be said
Exactly. There's no evidence that he threw games or didn't play to the best of his abilities. Over 4000 hits...that'll never be topped! He should be in the Hall before Bonds, McGwire, A-Rod and the rest of the juicers.
 

jbone17

Active member
Sep 26, 2008
6,756
42
The Riverlands.
Exactly. There's no evidence that he threw games or didn't play to the best of his abilities. Over 4000 hits...that'll never be topped! He should be in the Hall before Bonds, McGwire, A-Rod and the rest of the juicers.

No way. He voluntarily agreed to a lifetime ban. No one forced his hand. If you're going to put Rose in, you better put "Shoeless" Joe Jackson in as well.
 

Letch77

Well-known member
Jan 28, 2018
1,608
353
Midwest
No way. He voluntarily agreed to a lifetime ban. No one forced his hand. If you're going to put Rose in, you better put "Shoeless" Joe Jackson in as well.
Shoeless Joe should be in, as well. Anyone can see that his performance during the Series wasn't one of somebody trying to lose.

There's a distinct separation between "baseball" (being MLB) and the National Baseball Hall of Fame. A forced or voluntary ban from "baseball" should not correlate to a ban from the HOF. Rose agreed that he'd never be able to play, coach, manage, or be employed by any team under the MLB brand. The HOF, as a separate entity, is not governed by MLB - it's privately owned/managed. Its intent is to recognize accomplishments of players who played the game...their career numbers and other noteworthy accomplishments. Rose accomplished something at the major league level that no one ever has, and he did it without "cheating" or breaking the rules governing the play of the game. His accomplishments mean more to me than those of someone who cheated to obtain them.
To sum it up, the HOF is about numbers that were achieved legitimately, and whether he bet on the games or not, Rose's hits record was achieved without cheating (as far as anyone knows).
 
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jbone17

Active member
Sep 26, 2008
6,756
42
The Riverlands.
Shoeless Joe should be in, as well. Anyone can see that his performance during the Series wasn't one of somebody trying to lose.

There's a distinct separation between "baseball" (being MLB) and the National Baseball Hall of Fame. A forced or voluntary ban from "baseball" should not correlate to a ban from the HOF. Rose agreed that he'd never be able to play, coach, manage, or be employed by any team under the MLB brand. The HOF, as a separate entity, is not governed by MLB - it's privately owned/managed. Its intent is to recognize accomplishments of players who played the game...their career numbers and other noteworthy accomplishments. Rose accomplished something at the major league level that no one ever has, and he did it without "cheating" or breaking the rules governing the play of the game. His accomplishments mean more to me than those of someone who cheated to obtain them.
To sum it up, the HOF is about numbers that were achieved legitimately, and whether he bet on the games or not, Rose's hits record was achieved without cheating (as far as anyone knows).

I'm aware of the separate entities. Regardless, Rose should not be a HOF'er. The man is an embarrassment.
 

forgerelli

Member
Apr 4, 2013
383
8
Pete Rose admitted to gambling on games he managed. Gambling in sports is THE cardinal sin. It's worse than anything, including PED's. By far.

Even if (and that's a big if) he only bet on his team to win, that still undermines the entire basis of sports, which is to compete to win. If Rose had Mariano Rivera on his team and had a bet on Monday's game he could use Mo for 2 innings to make sure he wins. Then Mo is unavailable for Tuesday and Wednesday. That is affecting the outcome of multiple games. There are also many rumors that Rose was betting on games in the 70's.

Say whatever you want about PED users (including those that used amphetamines like Mantle), but they used PED's to improve their game. To win.

Gambling is the absolute worst thing you can do in sports. Read the history of gambling and it's affect on the games, it can utterly destroy a sport. If you don't understand that what Rose (and Joe Jackson) did is unforgivable in the world of sports then that's on you.

Scott F
 

Mighty Bombjack

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
6,115
12
Pete Rose admitted to gambling on games he managed. Gambling in sports is THE cardinal sin. It's worse than anything, including PED's. By far.

Even if (and that's a big if) he only bet on his team to win, that still undermines the entire basis of sports, which is to compete to win. If Rose had Mariano Rivera on his team and had a bet on Monday's game he could use Mo for 2 innings to make sure he wins. Then Mo is unavailable for Tuesday and Wednesday. That is affecting the outcome of multiple games. There are also many rumors that Rose was betting on games in the 70's.

Say whatever you want about PED users (including those that used amphetamines like Mantle), but they used PED's to improve their game. To win.

Gambling is the absolute worst thing you can do in sports. Read the history of gambling and it's affect on the games, it can utterly destroy a sport. If you don't understand that what Rose (and Joe Jackson) did is unforgivable in the world of sports then that's on you.

Scott F
Agreed from top to bottom.

I understand about un-leveled play and the dangers of drugs, but if you extend the PED usage to its natural conclusion, you would arguably have a better sport and product on the field. If you extend Rose's behavior to its conclusion, you end up with another version of pro wrestling, scripted outcomes and all.

Gambling and PED use are not even close to each other as rule infractions, nor should they be.

I'm fine with Rose right where he is. He is all over the exhibits at Cooperstown, having played an important role in the game's history, but he falls short of enshrinement as a warning to others. You cannot gamble on the game when you are in any way involved with it.
 

Mighty Bombjack

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
6,115
12
Shoeless Joe should be in, as well. Anyone can see that his performance during the Series wasn't one of somebody trying to lose.

There are interesting arguments out there based on Jackson's splits and fielding performance in the games the White Sox won vs those they lost (in conjunction with the foreknowledge that those invovled had about which games were to have which outcomes), but none of that really matters. All that matters is that Jackson took the money in full knowledge that there was a fix.
 

gt2590

Super Moderator
Aug 17, 2008
38,656
3,240
Near Philly
I keep going back to an instance a long time ago when some of his backers in the Hall, like Morgan and Schmidt, got Selig to agree to a meeting about it and Rose then went to Vegas for a big, splashy event-filled weekend which certainly did not help their argument...
 
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bstanwood

Well-known member
Sep 24, 2016
3,666
332
Mystic, CT
As organizations i realize MLB and the hof are seperate...that's dumb. The hof doesn't exist without the mlb, it's probably time the guardianship to entrance is taken from the most bias and ridiculous group of people in America, the BBWAA. It's not like rose has been vacated from record books like the ncaa does in certain circumstances. Rose has his mentions in places but he isn't in the hall and rightly so. If for no other reason than to be a reminder that actions have consequences. He still has a large place in baseball history and a larger place in baseball lore.
As for his most recent troubles, who cares. He's a regular guy now, provided he didn't break any laws, big whoop. It might make him look like an ass but I really doubt he cares. Is Manfred gonna go all Animal House and put him on double secret lifetime ban?
 

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