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Thread: Red card for Rizzo

  1. #16
    Administrator cgilmo's Avatar
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    I gotta see it in context.


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    Senior Member notjomommasclint's Avatar
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    The baserunner is still in position to touch the plate. If you look at his back leg it appears to be inside of the basepath and his slide path will take him across the plate. If im the catcher I don't go to the front of the plate I go to the 1st base side of the plate.. The review ruled this play as no interference..
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    Senior Member George_Calfas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bstanwood View Post
    Would you have thought the same thing if it was at second and Mercer was throwing to first?

    It's a break up slide we see every day at second but for some reason because it's at home plate people hate it. It's also important to note it looks like he goes out of his way to not go in spikes up. I think that makes it look worse because he's fidgeting around more than usual but it would have been much easier for him to Spike Diaz in the calf/Achilles and that would have been worse.
    You are not wrong but these plays have been deemed "old school" and unsafe.
    There is sliding to break up the DP and then there is going out of your way, a-la Chase Utley, to affect the play. Had the Catcher been on the plate the slide is MORE THAN acceptable but he is in front of the plate well in advance of the slide.

    My guess is that this year will be chippy between these division foes.

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    Senior Member George_Calfas's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by George_Calfas View Post
    You are not wrong but these plays have been deemed "old school" and unsafe.
    There is sliding to break up the DP and then there is going out of your way, a-la Chase Utley, to affect the play. Had the Catcher been on the plate the slide is MORE THAN acceptable but he is in front of the plate well in advance of the slide.

    My guess is that this year will be chippy between these division foes.
    I don't disagree at all that it's questionable, but it wasn't illegal, that's all I'm saying and he easily could have made it worse. All he's trying to do is prevent another out from occuring and he did it legally. I fully expect him to take a heater in the back during his first AB today, and i support that too.
    I had to explain to a bunch of passive baseball fans why Tyler Austin shouldn't be arrested for assault earlier this year when he went hard into second and I'm as big a Sox fan as the next guy. It's a part of the game right now, until it becomes illegal I say do what you can to win.

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    Senior Member Super Mario's Avatar
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    His trajectory vs where home plate is.......Click image for larger version. 

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    Senior Member MrMet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
    His trajectory vs where home plate is.......Click image for larger version. 

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    Not exactly true if you watch the whole thing and not just go off the picture, but when he spent his whole time from 3rd to home outside the foul line, where he ended up does seem awfully suspicious


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    Senior Member George_Calfas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMet View Post
    Not exactly true if you watch the whole thing and not just go off the picture, but when he spent his whole time from 3rd to home outside the foul line, where he ended up does seem awfully suspicious
    The last bit is how he violated Rule 6.01(i).

    6.01 (i) (7.13) Collisions at Home Plate
    (1) A runner attempting to score may not deviate from his direct pathway to the plate in order to initiate contact with the catcher (or other player covering home plate), or otherwise initiate an avoidable collision. If, in the judgment of the umpire, a runner attempting to score initiates contact with the catcher (or other player covering home plate) in such a manner, the umpire shall declare the runner out (regardless of whether the player covering home plate maintains possession of the ball). In such circumstances, the umpire shall call the ball dead, and all other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the collision. If the runner slides into the plate in an appropriate manner, he shall not be adjudged to have violated Rule 6.01(i) (Rule 7.13).

  9. #24
    Senior Member MrMet's Avatar
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    Agreed, and so does MLB, they announced today that the game umps and replay umps got it wrong


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    Quote Originally Posted by bstanwood View Post
    Would you have thought the same thing if it was at second and Mercer was throwing to first?
    If Mercer were 2 feet clear of the bag making his throw like Diaz was off the plate? Yes, I'd have an issue with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by bstanwood View Post
    It's a break up slide we see every day at second but for some reason because it's at home plate people hate it. It's also important to note it looks like he goes out of his way to not go in spikes up. I think that makes it look worse because he's fidgeting around more than usual but it would have been much easier for him to Spike Diaz in the calf/Achilles and that would have been worse.
    Though both slides are technically trying to break up a double play, in application the two are quite a bit different I think and it all comes down to player safety. 9 times out of 10 the shortstop or second baseman has the runner visible in front of him as well as a little bit of time to take some reactionary action to clear himself from the path of the runner trying to break up the double play. Also runners out by 15 feet at second, like Rizzo was at the plate, don't normally even attempt to break up a double play. I can't think of a situation that a catcher would be completing the 2-3 portion of a double play in which he could see the runner and try to protect himself any more than Diaz did in this instance. All you can do is touch the plate and step out of the way to make your throw as he did. He was about two feet out in front of the plate, almost into the infield grass, and turned away from third base as you have to be to make the throw to first. Rizzo hadn't even started his slide when Diaz had to turn his back on him to throw so Diaz was totally unprotected. Rizzo was deliberately throwing his left leg out into the catcher instead of using it to go toward the plate. That is why it looks like he was "trying not to go in spikes up". He was extending the front of his foot toward Diaz trying to reach farther, not to keep his spikes clear. If Diaz was on the plate making the force out and Rizzo slides into him at the plate I have zero issue with this play. Since he was out by so much though and clearly deviated from his running path in order to do nothing more than disrupt the catcher who was well clear of the plate I think MLB is right and it should have been interference.

    Also what the hell was Maddon smoking? Part of his argument in support of Rizzo was that Diaz didn't allow a path to the plate so Rizzo had to slide there. What?
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    Quote Originally Posted by notjomommasclint View Post
    The baserunner is still in position to touch the plate. If you look at his back leg it appears to be inside of the basepath and his slide path will take him across the plate. If im the catcher I don't go to the front of the plate I go to the 1st base side of the plate.. The review ruled this play as no interference..
    I'm sorry but what? You realize how unnatural a baseball action trying to step to the first base side of the plate would be? The throw is coming from your left side so you're stretching into that throw and then you're going to completely reverse your body's momentum to take 2-3 steps (or a long shuffle slide) to the right and then you're going to stop and reverse momentum again to make a throw that is directly in line with the path of the runner going to first? Come on.

    Watch the video again. His slide path took his whole body in front of the plate. The only thing he could touch the plate with was an extended hand as he went by.
    Last edited by WizardofOz1982; 05-30-2018 at 10:53 AM.
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  12. #27
    Senior Member Super Mario's Avatar
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    The Cubs being upset over Musgrove’s slide tonight is f*cking rich.





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  13. #28
    Senior Member JVHaste's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
    The Cubs being upset over Musgrove’s slide tonight is f*cking rich.
    ...and then they wanted to challenge!!


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