Welcome to our community

Be apart of something great, join today!

Jason Werth says "super nerds" are killing baseball.

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

Austin

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
5,706
41
Dallas, Texas
Do you agree with Werth? I do a little bit.

ESPN -- August 8, 2018
Jayson Werth, who said he was "done" with professional baseball in June, has this advice for front-office types who use sabermetrics to determine the paths of franchises: It doesn't compute.

"They've got all these super nerds, as I call them, in the front office that know nothing about baseball but they like to project numbers and project players," Werth told the Howard Eskin Podcast for 94 WIP in Philadelphia.

"... I think it's killing the game. It's to the point where just put computers out there. Just put laptops and what have you, just put them out there and let them play. We don't even need to go out there anymore. It's a joke."

Werth, 39, had a 15-year career, mostly with the Washington Nationals and Philadelphia Phillies.

"When they come down, these kids from MIT or Stanford or Harvard, wherever they're from, they've never played baseball in their life," Werth told Eskin. "When they come down to talk about stuff like [shifts] ... should I just bunt it over there? They're like, 'No, don't do that. We don't want you to do that. We want you to hit a homer.' It's just not baseball to me.

"We're creating something that's not fun to watch. It's boring. You're turning players into robots. They've taken the human element out of the game."

Werth, known for his long hair, big beard and aggressive style during his playing career, is not the first to launch a verbal assault at baseball "nerds." Hall of Famer Goose Gossage ranted against the same thing in 2016.

"It is a joke," Gossage said then. "The game is becoming a freaking joke because of the nerds who are running it. I'll tell you what has happened, these guys played rotisserie baseball at Harvard or wherever the f--- they went, and they thought they figured the f---ing game out. They don't know s---."
 

Super Mario

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2009
18,242
85
Mushroom Kingdom
I don’t have a problem with analytics and front offices using all the information available to try and better their franchise.

Analytics aren’t ruining the game and making it less fun to watch, a the commissioner actually CHANGING the gameplay is what’s making it less fun to watch, in my opinion.
 

JVHaste

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2015
4,751
270
Vancouver WA
I have to agree with SM that the real negative changes are from the commish and the GMs are just thinking about the game with better data.

It doesn't have to affect the fan much at all (just don't look into SABR stats and enjoy the game) but who it does effect is bums like Jayson Werth. The "X person hasn't had Y job so they succeed at the GM level" is a bit goofy but it doesn't surprise me from him. What he forgot to mention was that a lot of teams are still aloof to modern baseball math. . . like the one who gave him a final shot this year. He was a Mendoza level player on offense and a Manny Ramirez level player on defense.
 

Super Mario

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2009
18,242
85
Mushroom Kingdom
I have to agree with SM that the real negative changes are from the commish and the GMs are just thinking about the game with better data.

It doesn't have to affect the fan much at all (just don't look into SABR stats and enjoy the game) but who it does effect is bums like Jayson Werth. The "X person hasn't had Y job so they succeed at the GM level" is a bit goofy but it doesn't surprise me from him. What he forgot to mention was that a lot of teams are still aloof to modern baseball math. . . like the one who gave him a final shot this year. He was a Mendoza level player on offense and a Manny Ramirez level player on defense.

That beard tho, bro.
 

jbone17

Active member
Sep 26, 2008
6,756
42
The Riverlands.
I agree that sabermetrics are beneficial in terms of identifying talent that the "eye test" may have missed (determining spin rate, WAR, UZR) to name a few, but Werth is right to a degree. The thinking has altered. For example, in the minors I've see a man start off on second base due to this new extra inning rule. There are no outs. The #8 hitter who's batting under the Mendoza line swings for the fences. Why not bunt? Oh that's right...the computer says otherwise. I've seen less stolen bases. Almost no safety or suicide squeezes. I've seen way to many players slide into bases improperly and get hurt as a result. Instead of teaching players the fundamentals, they teach launch angle.

I don't think it's the fault of front offices, entirely. There is so much data available and teams are behind the 8 ball in understanding which sabermetrics are good and which ones are harmful. This could also be Werth barking up the "They aced me out" tree, but both sides of this debate have valid arguments.
 

Pinbreaker

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
10,131
287
Laguna Niguel, CA
Yes, the dip**** nerds have ruined baseball for the old guys like me..

They have taken strategy out of baseball and turned it into a video game..
 

corockies

New member
Mar 23, 2013
1,213
0
Colorado
Werth is just butt hurt because advanced stats killed his career. They exploited his weaknesses as a player, and it drove him out of the game. A lot of players are suffering from them still - Chris Davis anyone? If players can't make the adjustments at the big league level, they don't deserve to be there.
 

Jaypers

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
48,898
1,378
IL
Werth went to HS just minutes from where I live. And on behalf of both my geographical location and the school system here in central Illinois.....









.......he's a f***ing moron.
 

JVHaste

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2015
4,751
270
Vancouver WA
all or nothing at bats, strikeouts are ok. it is getting boring sometimes.

I agree that it gets boring but it put this 100% on the commissioners office. They are the ones who accepted proposals to move in the fences at pitchers parks like Safeco and Petco, they also approve dimensions of new parks. They are the ones who also do the incredibly soft drug program.... everything points to MLB wanting more dingers.


Making an all or nothing offense is possible now, but could you imagine trying this 30-40 years ago? Would turn out very bad. :lol:
 

Therion

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2008
5,779
387
Looooooosiana!
My issue is the assumption that nerds don't get baseball. Maybe, and I'm being crazy here, Jason Werth doesn't get baseball. I mean, sure, he knows how to hit a baseball. But if he doesn't see that having more information gives your team a better shot at winning, then he doesn't understand baseball.
 

bstanwood

Well-known member
Sep 24, 2016
3,666
332
Mystic, CT
As a fan I like the old school numbers much more. I don't need WAR to tell me Mike Trout is the best in the game and Mookie Betts is unbelievable. I like some of the advanced numbers when I try and create a winning fantasy team so I can find good value that might have a better year than the previous.
If I was in Jayson Werths shoes and all my adult life I had played a game based on hard work and I find myself having a crappy year and I had some kid tell me I'd be better as a hitter if I adjusted my launch angle by 0.56 degrees I'd probably take my frustrations out on him too.
Advanced analytics are good for the game, teams just need to be careful how they are presenting them to some of the players I think. Pick and choose your spots.

My biggest gripe is exit velocity...I don't give a **** how hard someone hit a gounder to the short stop. Also if it was a home run...that's all I need to know, I don't care how fast it became a home run.
 

Members online

Top