Brian McCann......Respect.

Super Mario · Aug 30, 2010

cgilmo said:
Sam Banks said:

darocker80 said:

[quote="Sam Banks":1wqzkf6d]

mwashuc06 said:

McCann barring injuries will be a future HOFer IMO..

Click to expand...

:benson:

Click to expand...

its actually lookig like it. Averaging 20ish HR game, 5 straight all star appearance (Every full season). three silver sluggers and has been a key batter if not the anchor of the braves line up. If he keeps it up I can see it (because of his position). -especially if he stays entire years as a Brave

Click to expand...

Yadi's got a better shot.

:|

I don't see either getting in.

Yadi's bat simply isn't there long term.

Brian won't stay healthy long enough to play catcher his entire career. He's too big for that. If you could combine Yadi and Heap, you would have the perfect backstop.[/quote:1wqzkf6d]

I honestly think that if Yadi plays at this high defensive level for another 10 years or so, that he'll get in, at least eventually by the voters committee or whatever. People are really starting to take notice of his excellent defense.

I am fully aware his bat and offensive statistics aren't getting him in.

But I think he could go down as the greatest DEFENSIVE catcher of all time. And how can you keep that out of the HOF?

abravesfan · Aug 30, 2010

Sam Banks said:
cgilmo said:

[quote="Sam Banks":1mququl9]

darocker80 said:

[quote="Sam Banks":1mququl9]

mwashuc06 said:

McCann barring injuries will be a future HOFer IMO..

Click to expand...

:benson:

Click to expand...

its actually lookig like it. Averaging 20ish HR game, 5 straight all star appearance (Every full season). three silver sluggers and has been a key batter if not the anchor of the braves line up. If he keeps it up I can see it (because of his position). -especially if he stays entire years as a Brave

Click to expand...

Yadi's got a better shot.

:|

I don't see either getting in.

Yadi's bat simply isn't there long term.

Brian won't stay healthy long enough to play catcher his entire career. He's too big for that. If you could combine Yadi and Heap, you would have the perfect backstop.[/quote:1mququl9]

I honestly think that if Yadi plays at this high defensive level for another 10 years or so, that he'll get in, at least eventually by the voters committee or whatever. People are really starting to take notice of his excellent defense.

I am fully aware his bat and offensive statistics aren't getting him in.

But I think he could go down as the greatest DEFENSIVE catcher of all time. And how can you keep that out of the HOF?[/quote:1mququl9]

by, you know, actually having standards? Hall is for the best players, not the players that do one specific thing the best

Super Mario · Aug 30, 2010

abravesfan said:
Sam Banks said:

cgilmo said:

[quote="Sam Banks":30thg7bd]

darocker80 said:

[quote="Sam Banks":30thg7bd]

mwashuc06 said:

McCann barring injuries will be a future HOFer IMO..

Click to expand...

:benson:

Click to expand...

its actually lookig like it. Averaging 20ish HR game, 5 straight all star appearance (Every full season). three silver sluggers and has been a key batter if not the anchor of the braves line up. If he keeps it up I can see it (because of his position). -especially if he stays entire years as a Brave

Click to expand...

Yadi's got a better shot.

Click to expand...

:|

I don't see either getting in.

Yadi's bat simply isn't there long term.

Brian won't stay healthy long enough to play catcher his entire career. He's too big for that. If you could combine Yadi and Heap, you would have the perfect backstop.

I honestly think that if Yadi plays at this high defensive level for another 10 years or so, that he'll get in, at least eventually by the voters committee or whatever. People are really starting to take notice of his excellent defense.

I am fully aware his bat and offensive statistics aren't getting him in.

But I think he could go down as the greatest DEFENSIVE catcher of all time. And how can you keep that out of the HOF?[/quote:30thg7bd]

by, you know, actually having standards? Hall is for the best players, not the players that do one specific thing the best[/quote:30thg7bd]

Yeah, because there aren't ANY players in the Hall of Fame that are known for one thing right?

maxpower · Aug 31, 2010

ALL_THE_HYPE said:
ffgameman said:

[quote="ALL_THE_HYPE":1by7qa9z]

andyduke86 said:

bunting for an easy hit is being unselfish?

Click to expand...

A lot of guys are too concerned with hitting homeruns to take a free base for the good of the team. See Ryan Howard. See Barry Bonds.

It's refreshing to see someone putting their team above their own personal stats.

And guess what, if Howard would do this every now and then, maybe teams would think twice about shifting every time he steps to the plate, which would help him improve his average since he is a big pull hitter.

Perhaps a more obvious example of why this is unselfish is Mark McGwire in 1998. I remember seeing a team put on a shift against him and even in the midst of the homerun chase, McGwire hit two perfectly placed groudballs in two consecutive at bats to the left side for two easy singles. Helping his team win was more important than breaking what was (at the time) one of the most coveted records in all of sports.

Click to expand...

I'm not so certain Bonds is the best example, considering the amount of walks he took (not talking intentional, of course). He could have easily swung for the fences instead of taking a pitch.

I see what you're saying but still disagree because when he was swinging he was still swinging for the fences instead of taking the easy hit. Maybe not the best example, sure, but it still holds true. I wonder how many hits he lost because of trying to hit through the shift. That would be interesting to see.

Think about it though, if a player hits it to the hole maybe once or twice in a row, how can a team leave the shift on? I'd think that the player taking a free base would keep the defense honest. And if they keep shifting regardless, why not keep hitting balls to the gaping holes and bat .600 for the season?[/quote:1by7qa9z]

Bonds simply doesn't belong in this conversation. Yes, he hit home runs, but he's perhaps the worst example of the type of hitter you describe.

First, he was one of the most willing players to 'take a free base' at the expense of a possible home run. When he saw a pitch that he could hit, he drove it. I suspect his managers were in full agreement too. The team would much rather have Bonds take a walk where he could and trust that with his eye, any ball that he swung at was a good prospect for extra bases.

I like your idea about keeping defenses honest, but I think your scenario overestimates the rate at which such "keep 'em honest" hits would succeed. Sometimes, the batter will fail to execute the bunt or place the ball in the exact spot he needs to on a swing. That occasional free base won't look so cheap if it means that one of your big bats is no longer producing as much power.

Super Mario · Jul 17, 2018

Just thought I’d revisit this conversation from the past......
[MENTION=1720]cgilmo[/MENTION], how’s the Brian McCann HOF chances looking right now?

Super Mario · Jul 17, 2018

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AnthonyCorona · Jul 17, 2018

Yadi is a lock for cardinal hof

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delsant2 · Jul 19, 2018

This is a very interesting case....not McCann in the HOF, but Molina. McCann, while having a very nice career, has no shot at making the Hall. Molina, on the other hand...

We can all agree, his offensive accolades are not getting him in. I think we can also agree he is probably one of the best defensive catchers of all time. He has been consistently good darn-near each year he has played professionally. Not "great", but good. He does seem to turn things on though when it matters. See his post season batting stats, especially those in the NLCS and WS. That type of post season performance matters a lot! He didn't just fold or blend in, he legitimately helped his team win. He also possesses some of those intangible assets that don't show up on a stat sheet; leadership, passion, high baseball IQ and so on. And the defense, can't ignore how good that is. His defensive WAR has to rank awfully high up there! Also played all his years thus far for ONE team...which also matters. And, if I am not mistaken, I do not believe he is anywhere near the steroid discussion either. Should surpass 2000 hits and 1000 RBIs when his career is done.

It's going to be darn-hard to ignore his candidacy when it comes time. Will he make it in? Gee, hard to say. Not first, second or likely even third ballot, but I could certainly see it happening (this also depends on who else is eligible at the time). I could also see his hanging around the ballot, receiving 50% of the vote for many years before dropping off after his eligibility expires. Time will tell, but a fun debate to be had here. Still hasn't called it a career yet, so still more time to help or hurt his candidacy.

Cheers,

Mark

AnthonyCorona · Jul 19, 2018

Posada > Yadi

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delsant2 · Jul 19, 2018

AnthonyCorona said:
Posada > Yadi

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Hey, a very good thought. He certainly was a wonderful player. Nice presence in the clubhouse, loyal to one team, won championships and so on. And a superior offensive player to Molina from a power standpoint for sure.

For whatever it is worth, I personally would give the nod to Molina over Posada. Posada was an average defender at best, had a stronger cast of characters around him, weak postseason batting stats and when you look closely, isn't a ton better offensively overall. Sure, hits for more power, no denying that. Still, Molina isn't a liability at the plate by any means. Also check out their ERA's as catchers...one could argue Molina calls a much better game. Of course, a good amount depends on your actual pitching staff as well.

I'd certainly take a .280+ hitting catcher with high contact rate and low strikeout rate that can bat anywhere in the lineup and contribute, who is also in the consistently in the conversation for greatest defensive catcher of all time.

On the flip side, I am sure someone can make a strong case for Posada over Molina as well.

WizardofOz1982 · Jul 19, 2018

delsant2 said:
This is a very interesting case....not McCann in the HOF, but Molina. McCann, while having a very nice career, has no shot at making the Hall. Molina, on the other hand...

We can all agree, his offensive accolades are not getting him in. I think we can also agree he is probably one of the best defensive catchers of all time. He has been consistently good darn-near each year he has played professionally. Not "great", but good. He does seem to turn things on though when it matters. See his post season batting stats, especially those in the NLCS and WS. That type of post season performance matters a lot! He didn't just fold or blend in, he legitimately helped his team win. He also possesses some of those intangible assets that don't show up on a stat sheet; leadership, passion, high baseball IQ and so on. And the defense, can't ignore how good that is. His defensive WAR has to rank awfully high up there! Also played all his years thus far for ONE team...which also matters. And, if I am not mistaken, I do not believe he is anywhere near the steroid discussion either. Should surpass 2000 hits and 1000 RBIs when his career is done.

It's going to be darn-hard to ignore his candidacy when it comes time. Will he make it in? Gee, hard to say. Not first, second or likely even third ballot, but I could certainly see it happening (this also depends on who else is eligible at the time). I could also see his hanging around the ballot, receiving 50% of the vote for many years before dropping off after his eligibility expires. Time will tell, but a fun debate to be had here. Still hasn't called it a career yet, so still more time to help or hurt his candidacy.

Cheers,

Mark

Yadi is currently 5th all time in defensive value at 209.7. If he maintains his late career 10 per season or so pace he'll finish his career somewhere around 230 which would put him close to Bob Boone's current 232.2 mark which is second all time. Nobody is catching Ivan Rodriguez's 317.1 career total anytime soon, if ever. This isn't the end all be all of rankings of course but it's a quick and easy way to look at it.

If he stays healthy and gets to 2,000 hits, 1,000 RBI (a stretch probably), and 400 2B I think he'd make it on the 4th or 5th ballot. However given his postseason resume and the glowing, mostly deserved, defensive rep it is quite possible he goes in 1st Ballot in a weak class. If Pujols retires after the 2020 season as well then I think there would be quite a big push for them to go in together.

cgilmo · Jul 21, 2018

You know you’re a broken record right? Sometimes things go differently than planned. That’s life.

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CAROLINA BOSOX · Jul 21, 2018

A lot of the good ol'posters in that thread.

Austin · Jul 21, 2018

Super Mario said:
Just thought I’d revisit this conversation from the past......

cgilmo, how’s the Brian McCann HOF chances looking right now?

You bumped an 8-year-old thread in which Chris clearly wrote that McCann won't make the HOF to ask that?

AnthonyCorona · Jul 21, 2018

There was a thread about Jake Peavy in the Hall that went about as well

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Super Mario · Jul 21, 2018

Austin said:
You bumped an 8-year-old thread in which Chris clearly wrote that McCann won't make the HOF to ask that?

I do what I want.

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Be apart of something great, join today!

Brian McCann......Respect.

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