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Thread: Oh Super Sweet 90's Inserts.... #3

  1. #19411
    Member athletics07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athletics07 View Post
    Hey guys...

    ...just a heads up re: the Lilly and Cruz Jr. golden anniversary refractors being consigned by TNT. I think they may be altered sheet proofs from leximo.

    I bid and won the Edgar before realizing the sheet proof sold recently. I took a closer look at the serial number and it has, what appears to be, an embossed nature to it. This is not the case for legit copies. Now two more have popped up. It's due to arrive in the next couple days and I'll update here... in case anyone was planning to bid on the the two up currently and would rather wait. All borders match up on all three as well.
    I will only present this as my opinion but I believe these to be illegitimate. It would probably be easier to tell outside of sleeves in photos but I'm comparing in top loaders for consistency due to TNT's tamper label. I know it means nothing but may as well not complicate matters. The color of the foil is wroong, the size of the numerical stamps are wrong and the impressions left behind by the serial number are wrong.




    Most damning are the two border dimples which extend out from his bat.


    And here are the same two dimples from the original leximo listing. Glad i saved the listing photos because they have since expired as a completed listing.



    Giving the timing, I'd assume the consignor expected those listings to expire prior to processing through TNT. All in all, a really good serial forgery and an unfortunate development for this set. Really puts a damper on my desire to keep chasing these ghosts.
    Last edited by athletics07; 07-11-2017 at 09:38 AM.

  2. #19412
    Member linuxabuser's Avatar
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    @athletics07, which ones of the ones you posted do you assume to be fakes?
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    Senior Member RustyGreerFan's Avatar
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    And this is what many of us feared when as this stuff kept hitting the market. People are buying up the non-numbereds, numbering them, and selling them as legit. Now it's extremely difficult to know if any card you are bidding on is legitimate or not. Really damaging to the hobby...
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  4. #19414
    Member athletics07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by linuxabuser View Post
    @athletics07, which ones of the ones you posted do you assume to be fakes?
    Just the Edgar. When I said "they" I was referring to the Cruz and Lilly currently on eBay. The Smoltz and Bonds are wholly legit and in the photos for comparison.

  5. #19415
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    Err, that is very frustrating.

    Ryan
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  6. #19416
    Member linuxabuser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athletics07 View Post
    Just the Edgar. When I said "they" I was referring to the Cruz and Lilly currently on eBay. The Smoltz and Bonds are wholly legit and in the photos for comparison.
    Gotcha, thanks. The serial numbering on the Edgar is pretty good for a fake, but side-by-side with legit copies it is easier to spot. Very good detective work.
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  7. #19417
    Senior Member joey12508's Avatar
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    That sucks, i have a numberd one from years ago and i picked up a non numberd not to long ago.

  8. #19418
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    I missed out on a green copy last month that sold BIN before I even saw it so I was happy to be able pick up a purple copy. This is #17 . I can't imagine there are too many more floating around that aren't locked up in collections.

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    Gradually downsizing my AJ collection. If you are looking for a specific card, PM me, I may have it.

  9. #19419
    Member bigunitcards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fandruw25 View Post
    I missed out on a green copy last month that sold BIN before I even saw it so I was happy to be able pick up a purple copy. This is #17 . I can't imagine there are too many more floating around that aren't locked up in collections.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Geez that Purple CTA looks so good at that lighting angle, well done sir. Maybe one day....
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  10. #19420
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    It looks like you sized it up correctly to me. And it's disappointing. The font on the Edgar looks bad. I will say, though, that the dimples can be consistently located on certain issues. The David Ortiz Golden Anniversary, for example, all have a dimple in the same place (I have owned 4). I have a couple regular gold Edgars I can check. If the your Edgar has embossed font, can you tell if it shows up very lightly on the front of the card looking through the toploader?

    Quote Originally Posted by athletics07 View Post
    I will only present this as my opinion but I believe these to be illegitimate. It would probably be easier to tell outside of sleeves in photos but I'm comparing in top loaders for consistency due to TNT's tamper label. I know it means nothing but may as well not complicate matters. The color of the foil is wroong, the size of the numerical stamps are wrong and the impressions left behind by the serial number are wrong.




    Most damning are the two border dimples which extend out from his bat.


    And here are the same two dimples from the original leximo listing. Glad i saved the listing photos because they have since expired as a completed listing.



    Giving the timing, I'd assume the consignor expected those listings to expire prior to processing through TNT. All in all, a really good serial forgery and an unfortunate development for this set. Really puts a damper on my desire to keep chasing these ghosts.

    Collecting (click for website/wantlist):.....Manny Ramirez.....1998 Bowman Chrome Master Set.....2009 Topps Tribute Black Master Set

  11. #19421
    Member athletics07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carrsallstars View Post
    It looks like you sized it up correctly to me. And it's disappointing. The font on the Edgar looks bad. I will say, though, that the dimples can be consistently located on certain issues. The David Ortiz Golden Anniversary, for example, all have a dimple in the same place (I have owned 4). I have a couple regular gold Edgars I can check. If the your Edgar has embossed font, can you tell if it shows up very lightly on the front of the card looking through the toploader?
    Are you asking whether the serial number shows through on the front? I'd check but it's already on its way back. I've noticed that happen on Crusades. Interesting info on the dimples. I'm still pretty confident in my determination, aside from the foil hue, the arc on the 5 is crucial.

  12. #19422
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    Just curious, are the (2) 5s on the Smoltz different fonts? Meaning the left one differs from the right. To me the bottom arcs differ, curious to what you see.

    Ryan
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  13. #19423
    Member linuxabuser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RStadlerASU22 View Post
    Just curious, are the (2) 5s on the Smoltz different fonts? Meaning the left one differs from the right. To me the bottom arcs differ, curious to what you see.

    Ryan
    Will Clark / Mike Brown Collector
    They look different to me as well, but I think that's to be expected. They cards would all be numbered /5 all at once, while still in sheet form I'd imagine. After they are cut, then they'd get the 1-5 front number.

    Looking at this on my desktop it's easier to tell that the fake Edgar in the middle has weird kerning (letter spacing) compared to the Smoltz and Bonds.
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  14. #19424
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    Quote Originally Posted by linuxabuser View Post
    They look different to me as well, but I think that's to be expected. They cards would all be numbered /5 all at once, while still in sheet form I'd imagine. After they are cut, then they'd get the 1-5 front number.

    Looking at this on my desktop it's easier to tell that the fake Edgar in the middle has weird kerning (letter spacing) compared to the Smoltz and Bonds.
    Agreed that they are prob done at different times , but I would think the same printer would have done it using the same font. Obviously that's not the case. I have one common type guy, when I find it, I'll look to see how it compares. I'll look at the Clark /50 to see any variations.

    Ryan
    Will Clark / Mike Brown Collector
    ALWAYS LOOKING FOR ODDBALL, REGIONAL, TEAM ISSUED, VARIATIONS, AND TOUGH CARDS OF WILL CLARK AND MIKE BROWN





    BIG THANKS TO JBEL4431 FOR THE BANNERS

  15. #19425
    Member athletics07's Avatar
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    On all the copies I have, the placement of the initial serial number can be slightly skewed relative to the /5 primary. From my perspective the /5 was placed first and separately. What doesn't differ is the hue and impression. Fwiw, all the copies I have were acquired prior to the sheet release.

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