Should a Pitcher be able to win MVP?

Alot ot talk of Verlander being an MVP contender this year and heated discussion here.

On one hand, there are also awards for the top hitters and pitchers which are the Hank Aaron Award and the Cy Young Award. The MVP award has traditionally been given to hitters. In fact, the last time a pitcher won MVP was in 1992 by Dennis Eckersley. Before that, it was in 1986 by Roger Clemens. Other than the 80s, the 40's had the highest number of pitchers win MVP.

However, the term MVP is ambiguous because it states "player", which could be a hitter or a pitcher.

Personally, I say a pitcher should be eligible to win MVP.

I say no relief pitcher should ever be able to win it, but starting pitcher is fine......but they better have the best friggen season EVAR! (Well, not "ever"...but you get my point. ) Triple crown season, etc....

scotty21690 said:

I say no relief pitcher should ever be able to win it, but starting pitcher is fine......but they better have the best friggen season EVAR! (Well, not "ever"...but you get my point. ) Triple crown season, etc....

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Agreed. They should be in the conversation, but it should take one of the best pitching seasons in history to actually win it. Verlander is having a monster season, but it's not one of the best EVER pitching performances in a season.

I agree about RP's, although the arguement could be made.

When K-Rod had his 60+ save season, I could see getting some consideration.

I am one who believes Saves are not an overrated category. A guy who saved 60 games has saved almost 1/3 of his team's games played. That is impressive as hell.

Look at what a solid bullpen can do for a team. See: 2010 and 2011 Dbacks

Peavy was in the mix during his Triple Crown season

MVP should be a position player, CY young should be for starting pitcher, and relievers should be the reliever of the year award. Thats my opinion

Compared to position players, pitchers disproportionately affect the games they're in in a manner that more than makes up for the fact that they don't play every day.

IMO the MVP should always be either the Cy Young or Hank Aaron award winner.

wolfmanalfredo said:

MVP should be a position player, CY young should be for starting pitcher, and relievers should be the reliever of the year award. Thats my opinion

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My opinion stated perfectly!

HPC said:

I agree about RP's, although the arguement could be made.

When K-Rod had his 60+ save season, I could see getting some consideration.

I am one who believes Saves are not an overrated category. A guy who saved 60 games has saved almost 1/3 of his team's games played. That is impressive as hell.

Look at what a solid bullpen can do for a team. See: 2010 and 2011 Dbacks

Peavy was in the mix during his Triple Crown season

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60 saves are impressive, but it pretty much just showed how many games he pitched the 9th inning. I mean, their team won 100 games! It would have been more impressive if he hadn't blown 7 saves and had a WHIP under 1. If your job is to pitch one inning at a time and not let any runs score so your team wins, and you are letting 1.3 runners on base/inning than you should not be in an MVP discussion. I don't think any RP should ever win the MVP, but could be considered if their S% is 95%+, 35+ S, ERA < 1, WHIP < 1, and K/9 > 9. (Unlikely)

Yes, pitchers should be given full consideration. Otherwise, change the rules and make them ineligible. If Verlander continues to mow people down & leads the majors in wins, strikeouts, WHIP, winning %, and maybe ERA, then he deserves it. He's carrying the Tigers to the playoffs, if that doesn't make him the most valuable player to his team, nothing does.

As posted in another thread....

Secretary-Treasurer for the BBWAA said:

“There is no clear-cut definition of what Most Valuable means. It is up to the individual voter to decide who was the Most Valuable Player in each league to his team. The MVP need not come from a division winner or other playoff qualifier.

“The rules of the voting remain the same as they were written on the first ballot in 1931: (1) actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense; (2) number of games played; (3) general character, disposition, loyalty and effort; (4) former winners are eligible; and (5) members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.”

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Should a position player be able to win the Cy Young?







Actually, I don't really care.

scotty21690 said:

I say no relief pitcher should ever be able to win it, but starting pitcher is fine......but they better have the best friggen season EVAR! (Well, not "ever"...but you get my point. ) Triple crown season, etc....

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So 1981 was your nightmare?

I voted yes. He is just as important as any hitter on the team.

vwnut13 said:

As posted in another thread....

Secretary-Treasurer for the BBWAA said:

“There is no clear-cut definition of what Most Valuable means. It is up to the individual voter to decide who was the Most Valuable Player in each league to his team. The MVP need not come from a division winner or other playoff qualifier.

“The rules of the voting remain the same as they were written on the first ballot in 1931: (1) actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense; (2) number of games played; (3) general character, disposition, loyalty and effort; (4) former winners are eligible; and (5) members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.”

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(1) actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense

If you think about it, that kind of makes a case for not voting for pitchers as they would not be voted-on based on their offense and defense.

mikefrank said:

Yes, pitchers should be given full consideration. Otherwise, change the rules and make them ineligible. If Verlander continues to mow people down & leads the majors in wins, strikeouts, WHIP, winning %, and maybe ERA, then he deserves it. He's carrying the Tigers to the playoffs, if that doesn't make him the most valuable player to his team, nothing does.

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The bolded above is exactly why Verlander should be in the discussion.

When it comes to value, it is hard to imagine any other player being more valuable to their team than Verlander has been to Detroit.

As a Tigers fan, I've come to expect the Tigers to win every single game he pitches. Whether he actually gets the W for it or not, you at least know they'll be in the game just about no matter what, and that really says something about how valuable he is to that team. Without Verlander, the Tigers would be in 2nd or 3rd place in the division.

In a year when an offensive player was having a monster year, I'd argue that the offensive player should always win, but this season there are some good lines but it seems that there are no great lines.

These are the top offensive players and their triple crown stats:

Adrian Gonzalez- .345, 23 HR, 103 RBI
Jose Bautista- .312, 37 HR, 83 RBI
Curtis Granderson- .278, 38 HR, 107 RBI, 24 SB

It's hard to give it to Gonzalez with only 23 homers when the league leaders are going to be around 45, and it's hard to give it to Granderson when he's batting .278 (which doesn't even crack the top 30 in the league). Bautista is playing for a non-contender and his production has slowed, so it's hard to give it to him.

Of these guys, I'd argue Granderson has also been the most valuable to his team; but can you really give the MVP to a guy batting .278 when one of the other contenders is almost 70 points higher? That's a tough one for me to see. And without him, the Yankees would still probably be in 2nd place and leading the way for the wild card.

I still don't know if I see Verlander getting it, but he's been so big for Detroit down the stretch that he may actually have a legitimate shot.

Very simple... Pitchers are players and the award says Most Valuable Player...... so unless you want to tie in a bunch of other bs.. the answer is Yes

hive17 said:

scotty21690 said:

I say no relief pitcher should ever be able to win it, but starting pitcher is fine......but they better have the best friggen season EVAR! (Well, not "ever"...but you get my point. ) Triple crown season, etc....

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So 1981 was your nightmare?

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Yes sir. Dude pitched in 78 innings......over the WHOLE season. Certainly he was not more valuable to his team than ANY other AL player!


EDIT: That year there was not ONE standout player in the AL.....so I can see why he won the MVP. But nowadays? There is always a few standout players. Plus, if Mariano Rivera has never won an MVP (or a Cy Young for that matter), I can't see one winning from here on out.

uniquebaseballcards said:

Compared to position players, pitchers disproportionately affect the games they're in in a manner that more than makes up for the fact that they don't play every day.

IMO the MVP should always be either the Cy Young or Hank Aaron award winner.

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Very well said, IMO. Everyone against pitchers winning the MVP says "they don't play everyday"-true, but batters only bat 4-5 times a game. Pitchers will face 20+ batters per game. Someone on TV mentioned how many batters Verlander has faced-over 600 I believe. That is more at bats than all of these hitters have right now.

I think with what Verlander has done this year, he should certainly be considered. Without him, the Tigers would be probably 8-10 games worse-he has been money when pitching after a Tigers loss. In fact, without Verlander, we would have no hope to win a playoff series. Our 2/3/4 starters have been horribly inconsistent.

According to WAR, Justin Verlander (6.2) is the ninth most valuable player in all of baseball, fifth most valuable in the AL.


Sabermetrics are the only thing that matters and WAR is the tell-all stat.

hail2thevictors said:

uniquebaseballcards said:

Compared to position players, pitchers disproportionately affect the games they're in in a manner that more than makes up for the fact that they don't play every day.

IMO the MVP should always be either the Cy Young or Hank Aaron award winner.

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Very well said, IMO. Everyone against pitchers winning the MVP says "they don't play everyday"-true, but batters only bat 4-5 times a game. Pitchers will face 20+ batters per game. Someone on TV mentioned how many batters Verlander has faced-over 600 I believe. That is more at bats than all of these hitters have right now.

I think with what Verlander has done this year, he should certainly be considered. Without him, the Tigers would be probably 8-10 games worse-he has been money when pitching after a Tigers loss. In fact, without Verlander, we would have no hope to win a playoff series. Our 2/3/4 starters have been horribly inconsistent.

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While they only bat "4-5 times" per game, they do play defense about "8-9 times" per game...