Please don't adblock plus me bro

User Tag List

Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 345678 LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 108

Thread: Adrian Beltre Future HOFer?

  1. #91
    Senior Member mlbsalltimegreats's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    6,772
    Mentioned
    67 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I cannot be believe that Adrian Beltre and Juan Pierre are even mentioned with the word HOF...WOW... I agree (even if I dont want to admit it) if Beltre gets the Milestones he will get in. We'll see!

  2. #92
    Senior Member Mozzie22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,597
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by matfanofold View Post
    I really think you are grasping at straws now...

    Putting aside the nonsencical interjection of potential PED usage (assumingly to somewhat bolster your skewed opinion..?), if he continues to produce for the next 3 years like he has over the last few, you are going to be talking about a guy with ~450 home runs, ~1500 RBI, and ~2700 hits. And he would still only be what, 36? The totality of his career at that point is a milestone in and of itself. Go break out your abacus and do the math on how many people with 450 HR's, 1500 RBI, and 2700 hits are not in the HOF. Then factor in that he will still have a few semi productive years to go before he hits 500/1700/3000 and see how foolish your stance is.

    Having said all of that, I do think it will take a couple/few more years of excellent play BEFORE HOF talk is credible. But I see no reason to think it will not be achieved, let alone see it as not a possability.
    So let's leave numbers out of it. Because we have no way of knowing what his total numbers will be let me ask you this. What is your gut reaction? 5-6 years after he retires do you think Adrian Beltre is a HOF'r? There are simply too many very good players that are not in the HOF. As I said before, Beltre will end up in the Rolen, Edmonds, Murphy, Dave Parker, Ken Boyer club of damn good players that just fall short.

  3. #93
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    7,611
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozzie22 View Post
    So let's leave numbers out of it. Because we have no way of knowing what his total numbers will be let me ask you this. What is your gut reaction? 5-6 years after he retires do you think Adrian Beltre is a HOF'r? There are simply too many very good players that are not in the HOF. As I said before, Beltre will end up in the Rolen, Edmonds, Murphy, Dave Parker, Ken Boyer club of damn good players that just fall short.
    Well, my initial post in this thread prettymuch said I think he will need to gain some popularity (and stats) before real consideration or, as you say, he will probablly fall in the "Rolen, Edmonds, Murphy, Dave Parker, Ken Boyer club of damn good players that just fall short". But his production is undeniable, and as he gets closer to the big 2 (500 HR's / 3000 Hits) I think he will gain that. Again, this is obviously a big "IF", but if he can get clost to or actually achieve 500/3000 he is going to be a lock obviously. If he finishes with 450/2800 then his actual popularity is going to be the deciding factor.

    None the less, he is having a great career, is a premier defensive player, staying strong and very productive in his 30's thus far, and showing no signs of slowing down. So my gut reaction is that IF he can stay somewhat productive for the next 5 or so years, he will be viewed as a hobby/sports star and his HOF worth will mostlikely be unquestioned at that point. But right now he is obviously on the fence (depending on the next 5 or so years). I just believe it will continually teeter towards HOF validity.

  4. #94
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Buffalo, New York
    Posts
    8,349
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    All I can do is shake my head and laugh at people who are saying that when all is said and done, Beltre will have absolutely no shot at the HOF. Give me a break. The guy isn't even THAT far off of a HOF career and he's only 33. lol

  5. #95
    Senior Member ThoseBackPages's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    32,902
    Mentioned
    59 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    isnt he Dominican?
    What you collect is awesome, what i collect sucks.

  6. #96
    Junior Member emarc27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NYC-->St. Louis
    Posts
    400
     emarc627
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

  7. #97
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    9,050
     tpeichel34
    Mentioned
    74 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    2993. Seven more hits to Hall of Fame lock.
    Thanks to MOFNY for finally getting me motivated to start a website:

    www.supercollectorcatalog.com

    Here is a link to the cameo section:

    http://www.supercollectorcatalog.com/cameo-index.html

  8. #98
    Senior Member aarne13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Permian Basin
    Posts
    3,043
     aarne13
     Aarne13
    Mentioned
    168 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Are Beltre's stats significantly better than Fred McGriff's? Does hitting certain benchmarks automatically give a player "bonus marks" for HOF consideration?
    Blue Jays Collection

    Collecting- Marcus Knecht, John Olerud, certified Jays autos
    Also looking for 2007 Bowman Chrome Shane Benson Gold Refractors Currently have 25/50.

  9. #99
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Mystic, CT
    Posts
    807
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have always wished the Sox had him longer, my favorite third baseman I've seen, hard nosed, gritty player, really excited for him to hit 3k!

  10. #100
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Mystic, CT
    Posts
    807
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by aarne13 View Post
    Are Beltre's stats significantly better than Fred McGriff's? Does hitting certain benchmarks automatically give a player "bonus marks" for HOF consideration?
    I would be on the side that says no it shouldn't, but I think for a sport as steeped in numbers as baseball there will always be certain numbers that are just equated with greatness, whether it was 2,999 or 3,000 Clemente was the same player. I only pick Clemente because he was exactly on the number. I really like the McGriff to Beltre comparison. Two guys who were consistently among the best at their position for almost their entire career but never the best for an extended period of time, one will likely get in and one may not. I guess it's a good example of the line has to be drawn somewhere and apparently it's just north of a Tom Emansky defensive drills tape.

  11. #101
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,784
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by bstanwood View Post
    I would be on the side that says no it shouldn't, but I think for a sport as steeped in numbers as baseball there will always be certain numbers that are just equated with greatness, whether it was 2,999 or 3,000 Clemente was the same player. I only pick Clemente because he was exactly on the number. I really like the McGriff to Beltre comparison. Two guys who were consistently among the best at their position for almost their entire career but never the best for an extended period of time, one will likely get in and one may not. I guess it's a good example of the line has to be drawn somewhere and apparently it's just north of a Tom Emansky defensive drills tape.
    The Beltre comparison with McGriff is interesting. I think McGriff might eventually get into the HOF through the veterans committee but his below average defense doesn't help his borderline HOF stats for a 1B. In comparison, Beltre's above average defense at 3B combined with the magic number of 3,000 hits and borderline HOF offensive stats makes him a lock.

    The triple crown stats for their careers are so similar. Beltre is at 0.286/453/1602 while McGriff ended at 0.284/493/1550. Looking at OPS+ favors McGriff with 134 versus Beltre at 116. Of course Beltre is closing in on 3000 hits while McGriff had 2,490. And neither player has much when looking at the yearly league leaders. Using bWAR, Beltre is at 92.1 while McGriff 52.4 which illustrates the value in Beltre playing 3B with above average defense.

  12. #102
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    9,050
     tpeichel34
    Mentioned
    74 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by aarne13 View Post
    Are Beltre's stats significantly better than Fred McGriff's? Does hitting certain benchmarks automatically give a player "bonus marks" for HOF consideration?
    Yes.

    - Craig Biggio
    Thanks to MOFNY for finally getting me motivated to start a website:

    www.supercollectorcatalog.com

    Here is a link to the cameo section:

    http://www.supercollectorcatalog.com/cameo-index.html

  13. #103
    Senior Member Austin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Oahu, Hawaii
    Posts
    5,184
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Beltre is 29th all-time in WAR among position players, and 13th all-time in defensive war among all players of any position.
    He's been more valuable to his teams than the majority of the players in the Hall of Fame.

    In a few days, he will also become only the fourth player in history with 3,000 hits, 600 doubles and 450 home runs, the others being Hank Aaron, Stan Musial and Carl Yastrzemski.

    People are still questioning his candidacy?
    Set builder, autograph hunter and fan of the Texas Rangers & '50s-'60s Yankees

  14. #104
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    9,050
     tpeichel34
    Mentioned
    74 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    Beltre is 29th all-time in WAR among position players, and 13th all-time in defensive war among all players of any position.
    He's been more valuable to his teams than the majority of the players in the Hall of Fame.

    In a few days, he will also become only the fourth player in history with 3,000 hits, 600 doubles and 450 home runs, the others being Hank Aaron, Stan Musial and Carl Yastrzemski.

    People are still questioning his candidacy?
    He has an outside shot at getting to 500 HRs.
    Thanks to MOFNY for finally getting me motivated to start a website:

    www.supercollectorcatalog.com

    Here is a link to the cameo section:

    http://www.supercollectorcatalog.com/cameo-index.html

  15. #105
    Senior Member death2redemptions's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    The Carolina on the Southern side
    Posts
    7,162
     ddavisaz
    Mentioned
    64 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by aarne13 View Post
    Are Beltre's stats significantly better than Fred McGriff's? Does hitting certain benchmarks automatically give a player "bonus marks" for HOF consideration?
    Pretty much. The only eligible players who have reached 3k hits, 500 HR, 300 wins, 3k strikeouts not in the HOF are dopers..............or Curt Schilling.

    As to your question about McGriff, their offensive numbers are indeed comparable but the one glaring difference is their defensive position on the field. 3rd base is a far more difficult position to play than 1st base (fangraphs considers it to be the toughest position to play) therefor offense is at a premium and while McGriff was a below average defender at 1st Adrian Beltre has been one of the best defensive 3rd basemen of his time. Adrian Beltre is the better all around player which is the reason his 92.1 WAR is far higher than McGriff's 52.4.

    I first became a Braves fan back when McGriff was our first baseman and he quickly became one of my favorites. I also believe he belongs in the HOF.

    Adrian Beltre is one of those players who's been very good throughout his entire career yet he never got much media attention. Outside of 2004 he was never really one of the top 3 players during any given season. Regardless, playing at a very tough position he's been able to accumulate enough stats to be deserving of a HOF nod.

Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 345678 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •