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"It's not fair..." by Craig Biggio

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Super Mario

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2009
18,242
85
Mushroom Kingdom
I agree that the Hall should be taken more seriously and should be reserved for the best of the best rather than the borderline 10th ballot kind of guys.


I don't have as much of a problem with Santo due to his contributions to the game even beyond his playing career. Based on his playing career alone, I would have left him out too, but he meant a lot to Cubs fans, as I understand it.


As for Biggio, 3000 hits should be a guarantee for the Hall of Fame, but not a guarantee for the 1st ballot. I don't think he deserves the prestige of a 1st ballot induction, but I would like to see him in the 3rd or 4th time around.



See, I'm of the belief that you're either first ballot or you're not. And I know that people will throw out Joe Dimaggio's name in defense like they always do, but like I said before it's a very flawed system.

It drives me insane when people take years to get in. If it takes you several attempts to get in, you clearly don't deserve to be in .

My saying is always 'You're first ballot, or you're not.' But you can't help ignorant voters. I wish there was a better way.

And it's even more of a sticky situation NOW. With the 'steroid era' guys finally coming up on the ballot.


Guys like Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, they're 100% first ballot no-doubters to me. And it drives me INSANE that they weren't voted in on the first ballot.



WHY exactly does it bother me? Because EVERYONE in baseball turned a blind eye to steroid use in the steroid era. EVERYYYYYONNNNNEEEE! I was a XXXXing 16 year old KID watching Big Mac and Sosa during the home run chase, and I knew there was something fishy going on. So some naive kid knows there's something up, but you're telling me Bud Selig, Tony LaRussa, and everyone else in MLB didn't know what was going on? COME ON MAN! Don't be a moron.

THIS is what bothers me. Everyone accepted it at the time, and I believe the majority of the players WERE doing it, so it was more or less an even playing field.



So for Selig and the league, and the voters to come out NOW and want to crucify and murder these players, when in my belief they HAD to know what was going on then......well that's just beyond my Midwestern little weak minded brains capacity to comprehend.




Sometimes people really baffle me.

And a lot of times, it's the Hall of Fame voters.
 

mchenrycards

Featured Contributor, Vintage Corner, Senior Membe
There were many in baseball that stood out from the rest and called for increased drug testing and I remember Frank Thomas was one of the one's who literally begged for increaded scrutiny. To say that "EVERYONE in baseball turned a blind eye to steroid use in the steroid era" is a false statement as there were several voices among players who actually asked for the players union and MLB to increase the frequency of testing. And, if memory serves me correctly, these players asked that all players be tested, not with just a random sample throughout the season. I think Big Frank was one of those who saw what steroids was doing to the league and since he would surely be thought of as a user due to his size, he wanted proof that he was not on the juice so that his records would never be taited.

It is too bad more players didnt call on their union sooner to have testing put in place but I guess this is probably because a large majority of them were on something anyway.
 

sportscardtheory

Active member
Aug 16, 2008
8,461
2
Buffalo, New York
lol Now we can be "guilty" of what other people do because we didn't police them ourselves? What a joke of a thread and a premise. It's just so incredibly stupid that it's hard to even create a well thought-out response.
 

darkman

New member
Aug 7, 2008
694
0
Are we assuming Biggio actual saw guys injecting? Why the assumption that he knew about this?
 

predatorkj

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
11,871
2
am I the only one who thinks that Biggio himself used PED's ??? I think him and bagwell both are in that group

Oh, I wouldn't be surprised. And being on the same team with Gonzo, Bags, Cam, and Roger Dodger, it wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't well aware of it being used either.

I agree with the point of you are either a first ballot or not. You either belong or you don't. But since the voters play their little game, I play along. That being said, then Biggio would be one of the lesser guys. Hell of a player but when you think about the greats of the game, his name would never pop into my head. Neither would Bagwell's either.

I don't feel he's guilty of anything by not trying to cause change. Not on this issue. I've discussed this same concept in ethics class, but if people want to cheat, it should be the job of an authority to police the cheaters. More often than not, they reap what they sow. So by taking a shortcut, they screw themselves. If people played clean, they can wear that like a badge of honor. If not then they get looked down upon.
 

200lbhockeyplayer

Active member
Aug 10, 2008
11,049
2
While I can half-heartedly applaud someone like Frank Thomas, I can also view his desire to be tested as an idle threat...knowing full well that he'd never have the union's blessing.

As for Biggio and the rest of the "unfair" crowd...partial responsibility is warranted.

It's no different than if any of us chose the go in business with thieves or thugs. Regardless of who we are, unless we clearly buck the trend and overcompensate for our partners...we get lumped in the same negative perception.

Totally straight-laced, but all of your friends are "the stoners", you're perceived as a stoner as well. You have the ability to chose and make changes...if you do nothing, you have to accept the perception. But most certainly it's not "unfair" as Biggio will claim.

Biggio may or may not have used, that's totally unimportant...but by doing nothing, and knowing what the era was being called...he did nothing. It's on him.

Accept your fate Craigers and you'll probably get in next season.



Posted by witchcraft, voodoo and technological kung fu.
 

elmalo

New member
Feb 19, 2010
5,216
0
Funny how the guys who did come out and say something about it were crucified in the media. Canseco and Caminetti came out and said what was up and they were called every name in the book. Who the hell wants that headache?
 

elmalo

New member
Feb 19, 2010
5,216
0
See, I'm of the belief that you're either first ballot or you're not. And I know that people will throw out Joe Dimaggio's name in defense like they always do, but like I said before it's a very flawed system.

It drives me insane when people take years to get in. If it takes you several attempts to get in, you clearly don't deserve to be in .

My saying is always 'You're first ballot, or you're not.' But you can't help ignorant voters. I wish there was a better way.

And it's even more of a sticky situation NOW. With the 'steroid era' guys finally coming up on the ballot.


Guys like Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, they're 100% first ballot no-doubters to me. And it drives me INSANE that they weren't voted in on the first ballot.



WHY exactly does it bother me? Because EVERYONE in baseball turned a blind eye to steroid use in the steroid era. EVERYYYYYONNNNNEEEE! I was a XXXXing 16 year old KID watching Big Mac and Sosa during the home run chase, and I knew there was something fishy going on. So some naive kid knows there's something up, but you're telling me Bud Selig, Tony LaRussa, and everyone else in MLB didn't know what was going on? COME ON MAN! Don't be a moron.

THIS is what bothers me. Everyone accepted it at the time, and I believe the majority of the players WERE doing it, so it was more or less an even playing field.



So for Selig and the league, and the voters to come out NOW and want to crucify and murder these players, when in my belief they HAD to know what was going on then......well that's just beyond my Midwestern little weak minded brains capacity to comprehend.




Sometimes people really baffle me.

And a lot of times, it's the Hall of Fame voters.
What bothers me more is that people see this half hearted attempt at cleaning up the game as anything more than it actually is: a sham.
 

NECpilgrims8

New member
Aug 7, 2008
5,337
0
White Plains, NY
Frankly stunned that @NECpilgrims8 hasn't weighed in here.

...Because I'm too disappointed in the entire HOF process. It's a stupid system of high-horse riding, pencil pushing, sold-soul-to-the-devil, strategically forgetful, and unfairly biased writers deciding on a sport, when they likely have never even played a game of T-ball in their lives. It's a shame really, because the steroid era is the target of all of this, yet we don't criticize every other era of it's kind.

You have to be able to even hit a ball in the first place, so I never bought into the fact that steroids helped anyone be a great baseball player. It's too difficult a game in it's own right to have a magic pill or chemical suddenly make you a superstar. I see far too much of the game on a daily basis to ignore that simple understanding.

Biggio will get into the hall, and on that day I will be a very happy fan. He deserves it.
 

nosterbor

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2010
6,099
431
Sunny Florida
I'm not big on a LOT of the players that are in the HOF, but truth be told, it's a flawed system with flawed voters who use personal grudges to get their jollies. Which isn't right at all.


Three recent names that pop into my head that I don't agree with being in the Hall of Fame are Sutter, Herzog and Lee Smith..............and you know what? They all played for the Cardinals, my favorite team. But do I think they deserve to be in the Hall of Fame? Hell no.

Maybe I take the Hall of Fame more serious than most, but I think it should only be the elite of the elite, best of the best, and no 'borderline' guys.


And Ron Santo too. Only reason he got in is because he died. He wasn't good enough to get in when he was alive, and he got the sympathy vote, which makes me sick.
"
"And Ron Santo too. Only reason he got in is because he died."

And the only reason Ozzie Smith got in was back flips. Ron Santo's War for the 15 season's he played was 66.6 Ozzie's 1st 15 season WAR was 64.3
These is for you!::facepalm::::facepalm::::facepalm::::facepalm::::facepalm::::facepalm::::facepalm::::facepalm::::facepalm::::facepalm::::facepalm::::facepalm::::facepalm::::facepalm::::facepalm::
 

hail2thevictors

New member
Jan 20, 2010
2,187
0
I love the quote "it's not fair". Where did that come from? Certainly not the article you referenced. But, I suppose it fits right in with your reckless posts.
 

NECpilgrims8

New member
Aug 7, 2008
5,337
0
White Plains, NY
I should also add these legit points, which were stated in another article.

Craig Biggio has never been linked to performance enhancing drug use. He never tested positive, he was not among those named in the Mitchell Report. Biggio's name hasn't even surfaced in alleged rumors of use.

Biggio has become only the second member of the 3,000 hit club since 1962 to not be elected on the first ballot, and the other is the aforementioned Palmeiro. Biggio also amassed more hits as a second baseman than all but one other player to field the position. Eddie Collins. Collins played from 1906 to 1930. That makes Biggio arguably the greatest second baseman in modern baseball.
 

uniquebaseballcards

New member
Nov 12, 2008
6,783
0
PED users or not on the ballot there was and is still a lot of discussion about whether Biggio deserved to get in on the first try - but consensus is the writers indeed know he'll get in.

Writers have compared him to Alomar who also didn't get in on the first ballot a couple years ago and Alomar was arguably tougher to exclude the first time around on the ballot.
 

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