Where does PayPayl/Ebay generally side with in these cases...?

homerun28aa · Jul 26, 2016

I sold a few cards over the past couple weeks, a couple fairly high end card ($200-$300 range). I've always been a buyer not so much a seller, so I admittedly probably made some mistakes and could have protected myself better but I'm just wondering where PayPal or Ebay will go with in my matter...

In the interest of full disclosure the card sold for around $250, buyer paid within a day or two, I shipped next day, didn't get special insurance (I think you actually get either $50 or $100 insurance automatically using the method I shipped but not even sure about that). Tracking confirms card was delivered in/at the PayPal address several days ago. Today the buyer messages me and says that he wanted to wait a few days, but although the tracking says the item arrived he never got anything. He has solid feedback and because he said he didn't get anything versus saying he got a box with nothing inside it I'm inclined to believe him. I've bought so, so, so many cards on eBay but this did happen to me once, card wound up still being at my local PO and I wound up receiving it. I suggested the buyer try the same thing, go to their local PO and say hey this item says delivered but never got a thing can you check if it's around somewhere and he said he would do that (again, I could be being fooled but I don't think this is a case of buyer fraud). So in the likelihood that this card is gone (which as a collector first and foremost sucks because it's a really cool card), what's going to happen to me? Am I gonna be screwed even with all my tracking and stuff? I'm assuming I'm screwed...

phillyfan0417 · Jul 26, 2016

homerun28aa said:
I sold a few cards over the past couple weeks, a couple fairly high end card ($200-$300 range). I've always been a buyer not so much a seller, so I admittedly probably made some mistakes and could have protected myself better but I'm just wondering where PayPal or Ebay will go with in my matter...

In the interest of full disclosure the card sold for around $250, buyer paid within a day or two, I shipped next day, didn't get special insurance (I think you actually get either $50 or $100 insurance automatically using the method I shipped but not even sure about that). Tracking confirms card was delivered in/at the PayPal address several days ago. Today the buyer messages me and says that he wanted to wait a few days, but although the tracking says the item arrived he never got anything. He has solid feedback and because he said he didn't get anything versus saying he got a box with nothing inside it I'm inclined to believe him. I've bought so, so, so many cards on eBay but this did happen to me once, card wound up still being at my local PO and I wound up receiving it. I suggested the buyer try the same thing, go to their local PO and say hey this item says delivered but never got a thing can you check if it's around somewhere and he said he would do that (again, I could be being fooled but I don't think this is a case of buyer fraud). So in the likelihood that this card is gone (which as a collector first and foremost sucks because it's a really cool card), what's going to happen to me? Am I gonna be screwed even with all my tracking and stuff? I'm assuming I'm screwed...

I think with the confirmed delivery you have a shot. I don't believe PP require you show more than the proof of delivery. In these cases, they may pay the buyer through their own protection program...good luck

joey12508 · Jul 26, 2016

I had a card marked deliverd and it finally showed up 6 weeks later. Dont know how the insurance would work if it was marked deliverd.

homerun28aa · Jul 26, 2016

phillyfan0417 said:
I think with the confirmed delivery you have a shot. I don't believe PP require you show more than the proof of delivery. In these cases, they may pay the buyer through their own protection program...good luck

Does PayPal have a process where the seller doesn't get screwed but the buyer is still covered? Like I said I've always been a buyer, I would feel for him if he had to eat the loss here but at the same time I'm not looking to just give money away. IMO no one should lose any money here but I'm guessing PayPal must have something in place where they say well if it's the PO's fault it's up to the seller to work it out with the PO. I have no clue, and I guess since I have no clue I'll ultimately lose the money. You live and you learn.

homerun28aa · Jul 26, 2016

joey12508 said:
I had a card marked deliverd and it finally showed up 6 weeks later. Dont know how the insurance would work if it was marked deliverd.

I've heard similar things (I think on this board) but that never happened to me, I'd feel a little uncomfortable telling the guy let's wait a month or so and hope it pops up. Agh, tough spot imo

Thanks for your input here

phillyfan0417 · Jul 26, 2016

homerun28aa said:
Does PayPal have a process where the seller doesn't get screwed but the buyer is still covered? Like I said I've always been a buyer, I would feel for him if he had to eat the loss here but at the same time I'm not looking to just give money away. IMO no one should lose any money here but I'm guessing PayPal must have something in place where they say well if it's the PO's fault it's up to the seller to work it out with the PO. I have no clue, and I guess since I have no clue I'll ultimately lose the money. You live and you learn.

they do. Its part of the buyer protection program. Its been the program I've been paid back from when I worked with the sellers.

homerun28aa · Jul 26, 2016

phillyfan0417 said:
they do. Its part of the buyer protection program. Its been the program I've been paid back from when I worked with the sellers.

Thanks. Hopefully it goes in that direction then if it isn't found at the PO. I'd love for the card to turn up though aside from the obvious financial pickle.

Musial Collector · Jul 26, 2016

IIRC, for you the seller to win an item not received case, if the item is over $200 (or maybe it's $250 now), the item has to be signed for at a minimum.
If its over that amount and it's not signed for, I believe you will lose the case.
USPS does cover up to $100 on priority mailings, if you sent it first class, you did not get that automatic insurance coverage.

Musial Collector · Jul 26, 2016

homerun28aa said:
Does PayPal have a process where the seller doesn't get screwed but the buyer is still covered? Like I said I've always been a buyer, I would feel for him if he had to eat the loss here but at the same time I'm not looking to just give money away. IMO no one should lose any money here but I'm guessing PayPal must have something in place where they say well if it's the PO's fault it's up to the seller to work it out with the PO. I have no clue, and I guess since I have no clue I'll ultimately lose the money. You live and you learn.

Insurance is your ultimate protection here, whether the item is lost or damaged, you would get your money back 99% of the time.
I can say that just in the last month, I have had to make two damage claims to the USPS, very easy to do on their site. Both had the automatic coverage.
Many years ago, 10 or so, I had to file a lost item claim, thankfully I insured the item as it was over $300. Tracking showed the item was never delivered to the received. The USPS paid me back.

homerun28aa · Jul 26, 2016

Musial Collector said:
IIRC, for you the seller to win an item not received case, if the item is over $200 (or maybe it's $250 now), the item has to be signed for at a minimum.
If its over that amount and it's not signed for, I believe you will lose the case.
USPS does cover up to $100 on priority mailings, if you sent it first class, you did not get that automatic insurance coverage.

Thanks for the info, I had a feeling they'd have some rule about insuring over X amount of dollars. I did send priority, so I would get the $100 back I had thought it was $50. I guess it's a lack of due diligence on my part, when the price range is $500+ I've typically insured (and it's only been a few bucks) so I probably should have insured regardless of if I knew the PayPal rules or not. Hopefully this thread helps a seller avoid making the mistakes I made here.

Musial Collector · Jul 26, 2016

homerun28aa said:
Thanks for the info, I had a feeling they'd have some rule about insuring over X amount of dollars. I did send priority, so I would get the $100 back I had thought it was $50. I guess it's a lack of due diligence on my part, when the price range is $500+ I've typically insured (and it's only been a few bucks) so I probably should have insured regardless of if I knew the PayPal rules or not. Hopefully this thread helps a seller avoid making the mistakes I made here.

To be honest I have seen $50 and I have seen $100 they cover, not sure what the guidelines are, but it will be one or the other.
Yeah, a good rule of thumb is, if you dont want to potentially eat the cost of a lost or damaged item, always error on the side of caution and insure it. Yeah it will cost you money, but better to be out a few extra bucks here and there insuring vs larger amounts like this. Sorry it happened to you, never a good feeling.

homerun28aa · Jul 26, 2016

Musial Collector said:
To be honest I have seen $50 and I have seen $100 they cover, not sure what the guidelines are, but it will be one or the other.
Yeah, a good rule of thumb is, if you dont want to potentially eat the cost of a lost or damaged item, always error on the side of caution and insure it. Yeah it will cost you money, but better to be out a few extra bucks here and there insuring vs larger amounts like this. Sorry it happened to you, never a good feeling.

Absolutely. I remember the last one I insured was for $650 and only paid a few bucks I was really surprised how cheap the insurance was. Should have gone for it. You never know, maybe the card will turn up. In all seriousness, I really hope it does moreso than avoiding a PayPal dispute; this was one of those I was on the fence about putting up to begin with.

Musial Collector · Jul 26, 2016

Hmmm.....requirements may have changed........I'm looking at paypal user agreement now and I'm seeing $750

Musial Collector · Jul 26, 2016

The user agreement was updated on June 25, 2016, not sure which aspects of it were, but here it is

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full

Musial Collector · Jul 26, 2016

I haven't dug into this too deep, have a few work things to get to, but might be a good idea to peruse through it and see if you may be OK if the item is showing as received and you can show you mailed to the address they provided.

phillyfan0417 · Jul 26, 2016

“Proof of Delivery” for tangible items is online documentation from a shipping company that includes all of the following:

The item’s status as delivered.
The date the item is delivered.
The recipient address is the same as in the shipping address section on the Transaction Details Page.
The recipient's address, showing at least the city & state, or city & country, or zip/postal code (or international equivalent).
Signature Confirmation as described below if the full amount of the payment including shipping and taxes is $750 USD or more or its foreign currency equivalent provided below:

that seems to mean you may be ok.

Musial Collector · Jul 26, 2016

I know PP at one point was signature confirm at like $200-250 so this part seems to be a part of their update. Thats good information to have.
Let us know how this plays out.

roundtree34 · Jul 26, 2016

I had something like this happen to me a few years back, so now when I sell and card over $100 bucks i throw in the price of a signature required. it has since saved me more then once.

CollectorsCorner · Jul 26, 2016

I lost a $400 card putting signature confirmation on it. Had I just used DC it would have been delivered. USPS man, they will get ya

Kennesawsportscards · Jul 27, 2016

homerun28aa said:
I sold a few cards over the past couple weeks, a couple fairly high end card ($200-$300 range). I've always been a buyer not so much a seller, so I admittedly probably made some mistakes and could have protected myself better but I'm just wondering where PayPal or Ebay will go with in my matter...

In the interest of full disclosure the card sold for around $250, buyer paid within a day or two, I shipped next day, didn't get special insurance (I think you actually get either $50 or $100 insurance automatically using the method I shipped but not even sure about that). Tracking confirms card was delivered in/at the PayPal address several days ago. Today the buyer messages me and says that he wanted to wait a few days, but although the tracking says the item arrived he never got anything. He has solid feedback and because he said he didn't get anything versus saying he got a box with nothing inside it I'm inclined to believe him. I've bought so, so, so many cards on eBay but this did happen to me once, card wound up still being at my local PO and I wound up receiving it. I suggested the buyer try the same thing, go to their local PO and say hey this item says delivered but never got a thing can you check if it's around somewhere and he said he would do that (again, I could be being fooled but I don't think this is a case of buyer fraud). So in the likelihood that this card is gone (which as a collector first and foremost sucks because it's a really cool card), what's going to happen to me? Am I gonna be screwed even with all my tracking and stuff? I'm assuming I'm screwed...

I have posted about this before and this has saved me and many others in similar situations. The Post Office has a GPS tracking system that will tell you exactly where the package was delivered and the exact time. Mistakes are made all the time with PO delivery drivers who scan packages as delivered to specific address only to be found that the package was delivered somewhere else. Have the PO do a GPS tracking, then you will have some answers before making a decision on how to move forward in your situation. Bryan

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