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I can't stomach reading anymore than the first 100 posts but I get it.
I would have said Jr for sure but not 100%, doubt anyone ever gets 100%
I am not huge on anyone else but MP is cool with me.
Not a huge Bagwell fan and definitely don't see Bonds, Clemens, etc. making it but maybe I'm wrong.
As for the Rock, definitely not. Sorry. Not happening IMO.
This all said, let me mention Albert Belle. I think he should be accepted by the vets committee
Raines was a really good player for a really long time, but I don't think he deserves the hall either. What statistical category would make him deserving of the hall? He played what, 20 years? Still didn't get 3,000 hits, no MVP, below .300 career hitter, below 200 HRs.
I only see Hoffman making it next year.
Pudge might as well due to the allegations.
My only guess is the people scratching their heads about Raines never saw him play.
He got so many votes because he is one of the best players, leadoff hitters, and base stealers of all time.
And don't give me that, "he hung around a long time bull****", either.
Rickey Henderson played for 25 years.
To say he is the 2nd best leadoff hitter of all time is a bit of a stretch, just off the top of my head I'd have to say Rickey, Pete Rose, Biggio, Ichiro and probably even Lou Brock are in front of Raines.
Your last sentence tells me all I need to know.
Here's a couple of fun tweets I saw as well...
Raines vs Brock
BA: Rock
OBP: Rock
SLG: Rock
OPS: Rock
TOB: Rock
HR: Rock
SB%: Rock
OPS+: Rock
wOBA: Rock
wRC+: Rock
WAR: Rock
HOF: Brock
Lou Brock would have to return to baseball and steal 762 consecutive bases without being caught to pass Tim Raines in SB efficiency.
Ok, so take Brock off the list and you still have 4-5 guys in front of Raines. Raines was a great player, no doubt. But not all great players are HOF worthy and I don't think there is one single stat line in Raines' career that is HOF worthy. To only point at stolen bases is a tough argument, based on that stat fact Billy Hamilton is well on his way to the Hall, right??
Pudge was a much better hitter than people give him credit for.I think Pudge should get it in because he was one of the most feared catchers in his prime and for most of his career on defense and was a decent hitter for a catcher at the plate (IMHO, he ain't no Mike Pazza and Piazza was long overdue for the hall).
I'm still scratching my head over why Raines got so many votes - I recall him as a speedster and in a few all-star games, but my memory doesn't make him one of the best of his time in the OF position. I'm only having to guess he got so many votes because the clock is running out on getting former Expos elected to the HOF (and Vladdy is probably the only other serious contender for the HOF left for those who put on expos uniforms).
The argument can be made Jeter was better for far longer than Griffey. Griffey had 7 or 8 tremendous seasons, the rest of his career wasnt really all that spectacular. Jeter, in his career, really only had a couple of off years.Any shoo-in 'should' get 100% of the vote, and it may happen for someone eventually. But it wouldn't be because of the falsehood that Jeter was better at baseball than Jr (or Aaron, or Mays, or ...). It'd be due to changing demographics of the voters.
Jeter's postseasons were consistent with his regular season. He simply had a full season's worth of postseason games to contribute to confirmation bias. The postseason counts, and definitely is a big positive. Great career, great moments, tons of success. A sure-fire HoFer. But not better than Jr and many others who didn't end up with 100% of the vote.
And for those who bring up defense, it's a mistake to try to prop up Jeter that way: from b-r's WAR calculation (again, not a perfect stat), Jeter's dWAR was greater than zero only three times in his career; his max was 1.1; cumulative it's -9.
Jeter would be a first ballot hall of famer had he never played a single post season game.I did not realize that the Hall was based upon post season success. This article in fact discusses the falicy of the importance of post season and WS titles.
http://blog.masslive.com/redsoxmonster/2014/09/major_league_baseball_2014_5_p_1.html
What kind of logic is that?
Raines was a better player than Brock in every way, and Brock is HOFer, but Raines isn't?
This could be one of the biggest overstatements (ridiculous statements) in the history of FCB... maybe lacking only behind the "Longoria is better than God" statement.
What kind of logic is that?
Raines was a better player than Brock in every way, and Brock is HOFer, but Raines isn't?
The argument can be made Jeter was better for far longer than Griffey. Griffey had 7 or 8 tremendous seasons, the rest of his career wasnt really all that spectacular. Jeter, in his career, really only had a couple of off years.