Card show promoter question

bobthewondercat77 · Feb 14, 2015

Totally lame complaint IMO.

A dealer attracting customers to a show, and making money there, is a good thing for a show.

You really think high-end customers won't show up bc of a bargain box dealer? Or that high-end dealers won't set up because they're offended by the low-class company?

If the higher-end dealers are not making money, it's because they don't have desirable / fresh inventory at reasonable prices. They should be looking at their own operations rather than scapegoating a more successful dealer.

Kennesawsportscards · Feb 14, 2015

bobthewondercat77 said:
Totally lame complaint IMO.

You really think high-end customers won't show up bc of a bargain box dealer? Or that high-end dealers won't set up because they're offended by the low-class company?

In a smaller show(100 plus customers) that is catering to a cheaper clientele this is true. A larger show it will have no bearing at all.

If the higher-end dealers are not making money, it's because they don't have desirable / fresh inventory at reasonable prices. They should be looking at their own operations rather than scapegoating a more successful dealer.

Then tell that to every high end dealer in Atlanta and ask them why they don't do the shows here on a regular basis and complain about all the 25/50/1.00 box dealers. Ask any National dealer why they cry doom and gloom and refuse to ever come to this city again every time I tell them that I am from Atlanta. If you are not here in this city then your opinion has no real basis other than a guess. BTW I do very well when I do a larger show, including the National.

CollectorsCorner · Feb 14, 2015

What does this small town Iowa show have anything to do with an Atlanta show?

NY Tony · Feb 14, 2015

IMHO , for what it's worth, if a size able amount of your show's visitors are willing to sort through unorganized $0.25 boxes, then I would cater to those types of customers

If you have the patience to do that at a show all day my gawd!!!!!

homerun28aa · Feb 14, 2015

The notion that 3 tables, even at a smaller show, can create a "cheap" culture to your show seems questionable at best. You have the guys that go to shows who are going to spend $50 and not buy a single item more than $5 and you're going to get other guys who spend $2K on 6 cards in total. Those people aren't going to change; the guy who has $2K in his pocket won't suddenly start sifting through bargain boxes and the guy with $50 isn't going to withdraw $1K more just because the show is full of only high-end stuff. Most shows have a little bit of each and if there are dealers complaining it's probably because they have generic stuff that others have seen 100s of times.

theacox · Feb 14, 2015

I am not a seller at shows, only a buyer. I have the luxury of having the National within a 2 hour drive every couple of years, so maybe that skews my opinion a bit.

Around Milwaukee/Madison/Rockford, I am lucky to have quite a variety of shows. Most monthly shows are 20-40 tables (some advertise 90, but that's a joke as you'd never even fit that in the room). Several sellers have tables at multiple shows. There is at least one show that is 90% pre-2000/memorabilia only. I no longer attend that show, as it does not contain products I want.

I usually have to travel from show to show to find what I am looking for, and I routinely leave with nothing. Some shows are vintage-heavy, others are not. I enjoy the variety and the interactions with vintage collectors, even though that is not what I collect. Some shows have dealers that help me with set needs. Others are pretty much hits only.

The biggest thing for me, as a buyer, is that a show should cater to what I am looking for. Obviously, every market will be different, but if you don't know your market, you are doing a poor job as a seller. You could have the most awesome cards at the best prices, but if you don't know your market, you are wasting your time.

Now, if only I could attend a local show that has new boxes for sale with some sort of competition, I would be happy. Sure, boxes are generally available at my local shows, but dealers seem to be very cautious to only sell product that another box/case dealer is not offering. I'm not sure if they are working together, but it sure seems that way.

DeliciousBacon · Feb 14, 2015

At the Mansfield MA show that I frequent, the two most popular sellers are the guys with the bargain boxes. I do occasionally hear a few dealers ***** about those guys making all the money, but those who complain are the guys dragging out the same "high end" stuff every show. I've seen some of the same stuff at this show for a few years; even if it sells, it's just one dealer buying out another dealer and trying to sell the same old cards. Meanwhile, there's 25 guys crowded around the cheap tables, and those dealers leave with pockets full of cash.

BBCgalaxee · Feb 14, 2015

I love love love love love love love quarter and discount boxes.

That's where insane deals and steals reside.......if you know what to look for.

Sent from my HTCONE using Freedom Card Board mobile app

jmc280zx · Feb 15, 2015

Maybe I'm in the minority but when I go to shows I will look/ buy from all dealers low end / high end/ wax/ prospects/ vintage... Who ever has the most value/ best deals for my $$$...

When I have set up at shows I have always tried to bring as much of a mix of low end/ high end/ prospects/ vintage as I can to try to draw as many people to my table as I can...

I would think as a show promoter you would want as much diversity as you can get to draw in more people...

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u2me57 · Feb 15, 2015

DeliciousBacon said:
At the Mansfield MA show that I frequent, the two most popular sellers are the guys with the bargain boxes. I do occasionally hear a few dealers ***** about those guys making all the money, but those who complain are the guys dragging out the same "high end" stuff every show. I've seen some of the same stuff at this show for a few years; even if it sells, it's just one dealer buying out another dealer and trying to sell the same old cards. Meanwhile, there's 25 guys crowded around the cheap tables, and those dealers leave with pockets full of cash.

I'd be one of the 25 guys crowded around the cheap tables.:grouphug:

moxacaine · Feb 15, 2015

In my opinion, every dealer who doesnt show up with a little mix of everything is only hurting themselves.
[MENTION=4788]Kennesawsportscards[/MENTION] , your issue is your dealers that are complaining not the discount box guys. People collect what they want regardless. Like it was already mentioned, the guys who are at the bargain tables are most likely not shopping for the cards the other guys have. Sure sometimes there is overlap but they're two different collectors. And if you have a lack of people spending money at the other guys tables its most likely because A. the declining interest in the hobby B. the seller (like mentioned before) has the same old cards every show. C. Are ridiciously priced.

Dont think one type of customer doesnt show up because some dealers dont have what theyre looking for. If sellers are complaining theyre not making money, they need to first look at themselves because the problem most likely lies with them.

If a collector wants a mid-high end card they can go on ebay most days of the week and buy those same cards well under what crazy show sellers are trying to move them at. On the flip side, those that like the low end cards for whatever reason, be it team sets, fill set needs, etc they prefer the shows because they dont have to pay $3 shipping on every card they buy.

Kennesawsportscards · Feb 15, 2015

CollectorsCorner said:
What does this small town Iowa show have anything to do with an Atlanta show?

Nothing at all. This is not about whether Iowa or Atlanta. It is about a concept whether it was a good idea to include a dealer with cheap cards to be included in a small show and if it would affect your dealers or buying public. Basically, is it a good idea or not...

Kennesawsportscards · Feb 15, 2015

homerun28aa said:
The notion that 3 tables, even at a smaller show, can create a "cheap" culture to your show seems questionable at best. You have the guys that go to shows who are going to spend $50 and not buy a single item more than $5 and you're going to get other guys who spend $2K on 6 cards in total. Those people aren't going to change; the guy who has $2K in his pocket won't suddenly start sifting through bargain boxes and the guy with $50 isn't going to withdraw $1K more just because the show is full of only high-end stuff. Most shows have a little bit of each and if there are dealers complaining it's probably because they have generic stuff that others have seen 100s of times.

I wish that was the case here in Atlanta........Problem here is that one guy with 3 tables has expanded to many guys competing against that, resulting in changing the culture of the show. Ask anyone here who wants to sell high end stuff at these smaller ATL shows.

Kennesawsportscards · Feb 15, 2015

moxacaine said:
In my opinion, every dealer who doesnt show up with a little mix of everything is only hurting themselves.
@Kennesawsportscards , your issue is your dealers that are complaining not the discount box guys. People collect what they want regardless. Like it was already mentioned, the guys who are at the bargain tables are most likely not shopping for the cards the other guys have. Sure sometimes there is overlap but they're two different collectors. And if you have a lack of people spending money at the other guys tables its most likely because A. the declining interest in the hobby B. the seller (like mentioned before) has the same old cards every show. C. Are ridiciously priced.

Dont think one type of customer doesnt show up because some dealers dont have what theyre looking for. If sellers are complaining theyre not making money, they need to first look at themselves because the problem most likely lies with them.

If a collector wants a mid-high end card they can go on ebay most days of the week and buy those same cards well under what crazy show sellers are trying to move them at. On the flip side, those that like the low end cards for whatever reason, be it team sets, fill set needs, etc they prefer the shows because they dont have to pay $3 shipping on every card they buy.

Much truth to what you say here. However, if you are attracting Dollar store buyers to your show then that is the type of dealer you will attract as well. Most higher dollar sellers here however seem to depend on a small handfull of customers to make their show. Unfortunately, not enough of those buyers are coming in to these shows.

homerun28aa · Feb 15, 2015

Kennesawsportscards said:
I wish that was the case here in Atlanta........Problem here is that one guy with 3 tables has expanded to many guys competing against that, resulting in changing the culture of the show. Ask anyone here who wants to sell high end stuff at these smaller ATL shows.

It seems like simple supply and demand to me if this is the case though. If the long-term result at shows in Atlanta has been that you get the cheap bargain dealers setting up week after week to me that's saying that week after week those guys are able to make money. I would assume that the higher end dealers sell in much lower quantities but with much higher margins, so that's probably why a small/lower end show isn't worth it to them. I only go to the east coast national kind of shows now with 300 tables because the table prices are high, they have high-end autograph guests, they charge admission, etc. - these are all factors that I think contribute to higher-end stuff being out on the floor. There are local shows out on long island that I've been to maybe once or twice in the last couple years because I know I'm going to see a bunch of low prospect autos and modern jersey cards numbered out of 299. IMO high-end stuff is much more difficult to liquidate I guess that's why those dealers have to take huge advantage of shows like the national I think regardless of how many bargain box dealers show up to a small show the higher end guys wouldn't get much table visits anyways.

predatorkj · Feb 15, 2015

Eddie, sounds like a show I'd love to attend.

I can't help but laughing when I read Kennesaw's OP....seriously dude...collectors get trained to be cheap? Lol.

I walked into Tristar this weekend with plenty of money to spend and I left with around $80 in cards. I spent quite a bit of time at the bargain bins(10 cent, 25 cent, 1 dollar). But every time I went to a table, guys were charging "high book". For cards worth nowhere close. I did pick up a few random autos of guys I needed. But these dealers are a joke. I was trying to be respectful, asking if there's a way they could work on a price. I knew it was a mistake when the guy wanted $60 for a random Yovanni Gallardo auto. I asked him what method he used to price and he said "Beckett full book. Is there anything else?". I purchased a few cards from him but quickly walked away. About the only thing high end I really considered was a Reggie Jackson rookie I liked but wasn't hip on the grade and would like a slightly better one. Was also on the hint for a few other HOF graded rookies. So it wasn't because I'm a cheap buyer. It's because I don't want to waste my money on Beckett's warped idea of value.

It seems to me some dealers want Beckett to matter. They want the old days back when cards were worth a ton. So maybe collectors don't need to be retrained. Maybe dealers should join reality. There are plenty of us with money out there. But I'd rather finish off sets or pick up random inserts for a hell of a deal than play games with "...high book" kind of people. I'd even pay a bit more than eBay because I'm buying in person. But if you don't like it because I won't overpay...whatever...that's kinda funny.

bobthewondercat77 · Feb 15, 2015

Kennesawsportscards said:
[/B]Then tell that to every high end dealer in Atlanta and ask them why they don't do the shows here on a regular basis and complain about all the 25/50/1.00 box dealers. Ask any National dealer why they cry doom and gloom and refuse to ever come to this city again every time I tell them that I am from Atlanta. If you are not here in this city then your opinion has no real basis other than a guess. BTW I do very well when I do a larger show, including the National.

I don't doubt that there are some dealers that would operate that way... I'm just saying that's on them. If you want to make money, bring what the customers want to buy. If the buyers at this show are spending $50 on quarter cards instead of $5K on T206 slabs, then adjust.

I have heard so much complaining over the years about how difficult it is to make money selling cards, and I sympathize with much of it, but I still see the dealers who keep a broad array of fresh, relevant inventory, well-organized and well-priced, continue to do well. Whether its 25c sales or $100 sales, it's all about always buying, flipping, organizing, developing relationships with customers, etc.

So when someone blames something else (other dealers, customers, the internet, the economy etc) without doing those things... I take it with a big ol grain of salt.

tramers · Feb 15, 2015

Local show is about 20% sports cards - comics , hot wheels , toys and dolls . There are some larger dealers with great stuff with fair prices . Also some bring same cards / prices next shows - I don't go every time . Some have .10 boxes of commons and $1.00 boxes . Just not a lot of hard core collectors in this area . I will say over half do not make $200.00 .

Kennesawsportscards · Feb 15, 2015

homerun28aa said:
It seems like simple supply and demand to me if this is the case though. If the long-term result at shows in Atlanta has been that you get the cheap bargain dealers setting up week after week to me that's saying that week after week those guys are able to make money. I would assume that the higher end dealers sell in much lower quantities but with much higher margins, so that's probably why a small/lower end show isn't worth it to them. I only go to the east coast national kind of shows now with 300 tables because the table prices are high, they have high-end autograph guests, they charge admission, etc. - these are all factors that I think contribute to higher-end stuff being out on the floor. There are local shows out on long island that I've been to maybe once or twice in the last couple years because I know I'm going to see a bunch of low prospect autos and modern jersey cards numbered out of 299. IMO high-end stuff is much more difficult to liquidate I guess that's why those dealers have to take huge advantage of shows like the national I think regardless of how many bargain box dealers show up to a small show the higher end guys wouldn't get much table visits anyways.

Don't overestimate the amount of money the people in Atlanta are making. Not true. And I am not entirely against the cheaper buyers and dealer as well. Surprised that there is not a better market here at these shows.

Kennesawsportscards · Feb 15, 2015

predatorkj said:
Eddie, sounds like a show I'd love to attend.

I can't help but laughing when I read Kennesaw's OP....seriously dude...collectors get trained to be cheap? Lol.

I walked into Tristar this weekend with plenty of money to spend and I left with around $80 in cards. I spent quite a bit of time at the bargain bins(10 cent, 25 cent, 1 dollar). But every time I went to a table, guys were charging "high book". For cards worth nowhere close. I did pick up a few random autos of guys I needed. But these dealers are a joke. I was trying to be respectful, asking if there's a way they could work on a price. I knew it was a mistake when the guy wanted $60 for a random Yovanni Gallardo auto. I asked him what method he used to price and he said "Beckett full book. Is there anything else?". I purchased a few cards from him but quickly walked away. About the only thing high end I really considered was a Reggie Jackson rookie I liked but wasn't hip on the grade and would like a slightly better one. Was also on the hint for a few other HOF graded rookies. So it wasn't because I'm a cheap buyer. It's because I don't want to waste my money on Beckett's warped idea of value.

It seems to me some dealers want Beckett to matter. They want the old days back when cards were worth a ton. So maybe collectors don't need to be retrained. Maybe dealers should join reality. There are plenty of us with money out there. But I'd rather finish off sets or pick up random inserts for a hell of a deal than play games with "...high book" kind of people. I'd even pay a bit more than eBay because I'm buying in person. But if you don't like it because I won't overpay...whatever...that's kinda funny.

Seriously dude.....Even though there are alot of folks that are cheap by nature and that will never change and obviously you indicate that you are that type and you are welcomed here to buy from these folks as well. However, when dealers go from giving good deals to operating in a panic mode state just to generate sales and other dealers follow suit, then yes you are training your buyers to be this way. Laugh all you want but this is what is going on here and you are only looking from your perspective as a buyer.

Plus, even though my sales are not what I or most high dollar dealers would like here in ATL I mostly buy my way out of most shows, so i am pleased. Just today bought 4 or 5 trout autos, a couple of Abreu autos, Abreu 1/1 from Tek, Kobe autos, plenty of Lebron, Trout, Brady RCs. And no steal of deals either......Just buy according to what I feel is a win/win to both parties instead of only looking for steals or cheap deals. Not all together against that, it is just not my thing.....I just happen to be one of those who rarely looks through those cheap boxes. Certainly alot of folks love it.

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