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Thoughts on Andrew McCutchen

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WCTYSON

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2014
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Ok, Lets go with what they actually did. Mays wins in hr, rbi, hits,runs, avg. The only one that is close is avg. So how do you have mantle as the better hitter?

For the matter of fairness, most of those numbers are greater because Mays had more PA's and AB's. Mantle had a better OBP but they have the same SLG. I give, the better all around player, Mays the edge because he was faster and better defensively while having other very similar rates with Mantle with the bat in their hands.
 

elmalo

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Feb 19, 2010
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Mays did all that in 2500 more at bats. If you look at their season averages they are similar, with Mantle having having an almost 40 point higher obp.
 

elmalo

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For the matter of fairness, most of those numbers are greater because Mays had more PA's and AB's. Mantle had a better OBP but they have the same SLG. I give, the better all around player, Mays the edge because he was faster and better defensively while having other very similar rates with Mantle with the bat in their hands.
Mays was a bit better defensively, not sure if he was faster. I just have a hard time saying that one was superior to the other. Mantle was, for much of his carreer, a very good center fielder. If he was some hack outfielder I would say Mays was better all around, but I dont believe that there defensive differences make Mays superior.
 
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RStadlerASU22

Active member
Jan 2, 2013
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M & M are basically the same player in the regular season

162 game averages
Hr 36 each
RBIs 103 Mays / 102 Mantle
Average .302 Mays / .298 Mantle
OB .384 Mays / .421 Mantle
SLG .557 each

I'm sure you can break down and down and down more stats. But with these keys ones the only ones that is even a real difference is Mantles SLG is a decent amount higher. Real hard to say who was better for sure

Ryan
 

gmsieb

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Apr 19, 2011
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Mays did all that in 2500 more at bats. If you look at their season averages they are similar, with Mantle having having an almost 40 point higher obp.


Again, I went this direction, because it's where you went. You said go by what they did, so the 2500 more ab's debate doesn't work, if it did, then put mays in a hitters park.

The last few years of a players career are normally somewhat down. Look at the last few of mays career and tell me, that didnt lower his career avgs a little.
 

elmalo

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Feb 19, 2010
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Again, I went this direction, because it's where you went. You said go by what they did, so the 2500 more ab's debate doesn't work, if it did, then put mays in a hitters park.

The last few years of a players career are normally somewhat down. Look at the last few of mays career and tell me, that didnt lower his career avgs a little.
It's not the same direction that I went down. The direction you went Down was speculation. It is a fact that Mays had 2500 hundred more at bats than Mantle. because someone has better career numbers does not make them a better hitter. The same thing you said about Mays last few years could also be said about Mantles last few years, so that is somewhat of a wash.
 

WCTYSON

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2014
7,364
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Mantle would have had more HRs, Runs, RBIs (supporting Lineup plays into this) and steals, if healthy...

As far as speed goes, Mantle had just 20+ steals once in his career and Mays did that 7 times with 40 steals once and over 30+ twice. Mantle hit over 50 HR's twice, same as Mays. Mantle drove in 100+ 4 times, Mays did that 11 times. Mantle scored 100+ 9 times, Mays 12 times. Mantle walked a lot but struck out a lot as well, with Mays striking out over 100 times just once, compared to Mantle doing so 10 times. Mays was the superior overall player but the lore of Mantle in the postseason was legendary.
 

James52411

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May 22, 2010
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Great point about postseason play. Wilt Chamberlain annihilated Bill Russell in stats, but Russell won the postseason matchups and is considered the better player by many for that reason.

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gmsieb

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Teams win rings. Mantle always had far superior teams to mays, really wasn't close. Chad curtis must be better than trout, had more rings.

If one player could carry a team it would be in basketball, but Russell had much better teams than wilt and better coaching too.
 

James52411

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May 22, 2010
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Teams win rings. Mantle always had far superior teams to mays, really wasn't close. Chad curtis must be better than trout, had more rings.

If one player could carry a team it would be in basketball, but Russell had much better teams than wilt and better coaching too.

Yes, teams do win championships. One must give credit, however, to players on a championship team particularly the ones who seem to come through in the clutch over and over. There are plenty of pitchers with better stats than Curt Schilling, but I'd take him over most of them in a big spot. Part of greatness is being able to deliver when it matters most.

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gt2590

Super Moderator
Aug 17, 2008
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Umm, maybe I was wrong. How TF does this happen? I know it's an online poll, and the "Toddfather" is popular, but c'mon, pretty ridiculous:

10715_10152541375176695_5909819693723154021_n.jpg
 

elmalo

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Feb 19, 2010
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As far as speed goes, Mantle had just 20+ steals once in his career and Mays did that 7 times with 40 steals once and over 30+ twice. Mantle hit over 50 HR's twice, same as Mays. Mantle drove in 100+ 4 times, Mays did that 11 times. Mantle scored 100+ 9 times, Mays 12 times. Mantle walked a lot but struck out a lot as well, with Mays striking out over 100 times just once, compared to Mantle doing so 10 times. Mays was the superior overall player but the lore of Mantle in the postseason was legendary.
Stolen base totals arent a reflection of someones speed. Mantle is considered one of the fastest players in the history of the game, especially from 1st to 3rd.
 

elmalo

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Feb 19, 2010
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My thoughts on Mays and Mantle are if you break it down, I would take Mays for his career but if you asked me who I would pick in their prime it would be Mantle.
 

WCTYSON

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2014
7,364
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Stolen base totals arent a reflection of someones speed. Mantle is considered one of the fastest players in the history of the game, especially from 1st to 3rd.

I can agree with that, Mantle being regarded as faster. Mays was more valuable as a base runner in their prime years though, i.e. steals, taking the extra base and making the most of his speed.
 

elmalo

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Feb 19, 2010
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I can agree with that, Mantle being regarded as faster. Mays was more valuable as a base runner in their prime years though, i.e. steals, taking the extra base and making the most of his speed.
They were both considered brilliant base runners.
 

elmalo

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Feb 19, 2010
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If we are talking centerfielders I would take DiMaggio in his prime over the both of them.
 
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