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Panini opens a box of Pinnacle - This saved me some money

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PoseyBuster

Banned
Jul 17, 2013
1,835
0
No, you introduced the idea of a poll which is a commonly used marketing technique necessary for specific niches, ones you're obviously immersed in. A poll is otherwise unimportant in the context of this thread simply because people would still buy cards without logos. Why did you bring up the idea of a poll? Probably because you couldn't prove whatever you're trying to prove without other people who also rely on marketing techniques.

You're also talking about the *second* time Donruss was around, or did you forget? What happened to them the first time around? They weren't strong enough to compete the second time around logos or not either and they went away... yet again. The same with UD a few years later.

Logos and marketing are necessary for niches. Logos aren't necessary for manufacturers as manufacturers with logos are still very likely to FAIL whether they have logos or not.

With regard to your final, unnecessary comment, the issue with you is that you're too far to one side of the discussion to realize that logos are indeed necessary for some niches - regardless of which manufacturers are in said niche - but not others.

Why don't you simply agree here? Let me guess: Apparently I've hit a sore spot in that your niche does happen to rely on logos (and marketing) and without them you'd be unable to participate/fund your hobby and whatever else. I don't really care, I just want to see if you'd man up and admit it simply because that's what I've said all along here.
\

No, i think it's cuz he and others can simply read your posts and know that they are wrong.
 

ASTROBURN

Active member
Jun 23, 2011
4,576
0
Santa Cruz, CA
For all of you who complain that the Base card is so bland -

Its a good thing the Base cards are bland. They are Base cards. If you wanted them to be more like Inserts, then lets ditch base cards altogether and have nothing but packs of inserts. This truly does remind me of the 90s heyday, when inserts became all the rage. I would have a hard time finding base cards, but could find inserts just fine. Most pack busters would just toss the base and focus solely on the inserts.

Bland base cards make you enjoy the inserts that much more.
 

uniquebaseballcards

New member
Nov 12, 2008
6,783
0
I count at least three self-contradictions in your posts on this thread. Mind gathering your thoughts and figuring out what it is that you are trying to convey?

If you take the MLB logo away from Topps, I guarantee you they would struggle too. A lot. I (and hundreds of thousands of others) already don't buy much (or any) Unopened product that doesn't have an MLB licence.

According to what you've expressed here, there would be ZERO hypothetical dropoff on Chrome Auto Prospecting if Topps gets its' MLB licence revoked. The main reason that ~I choose chrome autos to collect of my PC guys is for 1 reason only- My PC guys ALL have SAN FRANCISCO across their chests, with a pretty SF on their caps, and helmets.

If Chrome had NO MLB logo rights but DEEE did, I would have 50+ DEEE autos, and 1-2 chrome autos of Susac, instead of the other way around

I've no idea what you're talking about here (or in most of your other posts honestly, I don't think I'm alone LOL). However you just agreed with me here in red. I'm not so sure you understand the difference between niches and manufacturers, understanding this difference will help you understand this thread.
 

PoseyBuster

Banned
Jul 17, 2013
1,835
0
For all of you who complain that the Base card is so bland -

Its a good thing the Base cards are bland. They are Base cards. If you wanted them to be more like Inserts, then lets ditch base cards altogether and have nothing but packs of inserts. This truly does remind me of the 90s heyday, when inserts became all the rage. I would have a hard time finding base cards, but could find inserts just fine. Most pack busters would just toss the base and focus solely on the inserts.

Bland base cards make you enjoy the inserts that much more.

OR

Why don't they start making SWEET base sets, and get rid of most inserts, most of which are worthless and ugly.
 

PoseyBuster

Banned
Jul 17, 2013
1,835
0
No, you introduced the idea of a poll which is a commonly used marketing technique necessary for specific niches, ones you're obviously immersed in. A poll is otherwise unimportant in the context of this thread simply because people would still buy cards without logos. Why did you bring up the idea of a poll? Probably because you couldn't prove whatever you're trying to prove without other people who also rely on marketing techniques.

You're also talking about the *second* time Donruss was around, or did you forget? What happened to them the first time around? They weren't strong enough to compete the second time around logos or not either and they went away... yet again. The same with UD a few years later.

Logos and marketing are necessary for niches. Logos aren't necessary for manufacturers as manufacturers with logos are still very likely to FAIL whether they have logos or not.

With regard to your final, unnecessary comment, the issue with you is that you're too far to one side of the discussion to realize that logos are indeed necessary for some niches - regardless of which manufacturers are in said niche - but not others.

Why don't you simply agree here? Let me guess: Apparently I've hit a sore spot in that your niche does happen to rely on logos (and marketing) and without them you'd be unable to participate/fund your hobby and whatever else. I don't really care, I just want to see if you'd man up and admit it simply because that's what I've said all along here.

No...what you quoted in red is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you posted here, which is what that sentence was a reply to......more confusing contradictions from you....

I DONT buy cards without MLB logos, so how is that sentence agreeing with you?
 

uniquebaseballcards

New member
Nov 12, 2008
6,783
0
No...what you quoted in red is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you posted here, which is what that sentence was a reply to......more confusing contradictions from you....

I DONT buy cards without MLB logos, so how is that sentence agreeing with you?

What's the difference between a niche and a manufacturer?
 

PoseyBuster

Banned
Jul 17, 2013
1,835
0
What's the difference between a niche and a manufacturer?

Don't be an *******, I know the difference, kid. I'm not arguing "niches" and "manufacturers", which seems to be the only contradicting argument you've had on this thread.

You still haven't responded to how my "red sentence" agrees with your "Bolded sentence"

Cuz it doesn't, is my guess.
 

uniquebaseballcards

New member
Nov 12, 2008
6,783
0
Don't be an *******, I know the difference, kid. I'm not arguing "niches" and "manufacturers", which seems to be the only contradicting argument you've had on this thread.

You still haven't responded to how my "red sentence" agrees with your "Bolded sentence"

Cuz it doesn't, is my guess.

I'm not trying to be one. You're strictly talking about a niche in all your posts that relies on MLB logos, you say you rely on logos as well. Further you say that if your niche didn't have MLB logos you wouldn't be in your niche, I'm saying this is particularly common among members of your niche. So we're in agreement.

I agree there could be less interest across the board without logos, but it wouldn't affect certain niches nearly as much. Flagship Topps, Ginter, maybe a few others would be fine, probably because we already know they're in the MLB and because these brands have a long collecting history that extends well beyond logos... these brands don't require much marketing.
 

predatorkj

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
11,871
2
For all of you who complain that the Base card is so bland -

Its a good thing the Base cards are bland. They are Base cards. If you wanted them to be more like Inserts, then lets ditch base cards altogether and have nothing but packs of inserts. This truly does remind me of the 90s heyday, when inserts became all the rage. I would have a hard time finding base cards, but could find inserts just fine. Most pack busters would just toss the base and focus solely on the inserts.

Bland base cards make you enjoy the inserts that much more.

The base cards could be better but my guess is not a lot of people would want them anyways. I'm a base card/insert kind of guy but a lot of people only want patch autos. The insets are cool but even inserts from new products just aren't as highly coveted now. I'm ok with that because I win in all cases. I get to put a base set together quite easily, I get to pick up awesome inserts for cheap. And in the case that I want an auto or a patch, there are so many out there of any given player that I can pick and choose and still pay pennies. The hobby is very good for me but not do much for others.
 

ASTROBURN

Active member
Jun 23, 2011
4,576
0
Santa Cruz, CA
And in the scheme of things, this Base set looks pretty good in comparison with past Pinnacle base cards. I like em. Now I just need to know if Bags is in it somewhere.

Hes probably not on a base card anyways.
 

PoseyBuster

Banned
Jul 17, 2013
1,835
0
I'm not trying to be one. You're strictly talking about a niche in all your posts that relies on MLB logos, you say you rely on logos as well. Further you say that if your niche didn't have MLB logos you wouldn't be in your niche, I'm saying this is particularly common among members of your niche. So we're in agreement.

I agree there could be less interest across the board without logos, but it wouldn't affect certain niches nearly as much. Flagship Topps, Ginter, maybe a few others would be fine, probably because we already know they're in the MLB and because these brands have a long collecting history that extends well beyond logos... these brands don't require much marketing.

No.

"Niche"

You are taking my "niche" posts, combining all of them, then reworking it to suit your "niche" needs. Again with your farging "niches", i never once have mentioned anything about a "niche", I don't collect any "niche", I don't collect a certain product that has a "niche". I simply collect a PLAYER and my card of choice for HIM is his Bowman Chrome Auto, cuz I like the Logos on my PC cards. Andrew Susac isn't a "niche". So stop.

#niche
 

hive17

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
21,426
24
No, you introduced the idea of a poll which is a commonly used marketing technique necessary for specific niches, ones you're obviously immersed in. A poll is otherwise unimportant in the context of this thread simply because people would still buy cards without logos. Why did you bring up the idea of a poll? Probably because you couldn't prove whatever you're trying to prove without other people who also rely on marketing techniques.

You're also talking about the *second* time Donruss was around, or did you forget? What happened to them the first time around? They weren't strong enough to compete the second time around logos or not either and they went away... yet again. The same with UD a few years later.

Logos and marketing are necessary for niches. Logos aren't necessary for manufacturers as manufacturers with logos are still very likely to FAIL whether they have logos or not.

With regard to your final, unnecessary comment, the issue with you is that you're too far to one side of the discussion to realize that logos are indeed necessary for some niches - regardless of which manufacturers are in said niche - but not others.

Why don't you simply agree here? Let me guess: Apparently I've hit a sore spot in that your niche does happen to rely on logos (and marketing) and without them you'd be unable to participate/fund your hobby and whatever else. I don't really care, I just want to see if you'd man up and admit it simply because that's what I've said all along here.

You know, the best part about arguing with you, is that even when you're totally wrong and have zero facts to back up any of your arguments, you still persist that you are right and everyone else is wrong. It's fun, because most times, one would have to go to lengths to make the other side of the argument wrong; you do it for me. You present your opinions as facts, and the unknowable as fact. I introduced the idea of a poll to see how the average collector would respond to the dominant brand being without logos. I assume (yes, assume, as in: guess the unknowable, but with some insight) that it would effect Topps negatively, much the same way it did Upper Deck and Donruss/DLP. You STATE (as in, presenting facts about what COULD happen in a theoretical future that doesn't exist) that Topps would be fine and that only us "niche" collectors like myself (who you have a personal vendetta with) would have a problem.

You have no facts. You present your opinion as if it were common knowledge, even though it's commonly the contrary. You confuse your own arguments and have no defining point. Lastly, you are simultaneously losing an argument with ME, and a 24-year-old girl; a girl who you tell her opinion TO her. It's no wonder no one here likes you. Your condescending attitude is sad; made sadder still by the fact that you had to bump a 4-day-old thread just to make yourself look silly again.
 

hive17

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
21,426
24
No.

"Niche"

You are taking my "niche" posts, combining all of them, then reworking it to suit your "niche" needs. Again with your farging "niches", i never once have mentioned anything about a "niche", I don't collect any "niche", I don't collect a certain product that has a "niche". I simply collect a PLAYER and my card of choice for HIM is his Bowman Chrome Auto, cuz I like the Logos on my PC cards. Andrew Susac isn't a "niche". So stop.

#niche

Since you're new here, I'll let you in on a little FCB secret: the guy you are arguing with is the most pompous man you will encounter in the hobby. You needn't be surprised that he's telling you YOUR OWN OPINION on the topic is wrong, and that you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to your very pertinent opinion.
 

PoseyBuster

Banned
Jul 17, 2013
1,835
0
You know, the best part about arguing with you, is that even when you're totally wrong and have zero facts to back up any of your arguments, you still persist that you are right and everyone else is wrong. It's fun, because most times, one would have to go to lengths to make the other side of the argument wrong; you do it for me. You present your opinions as facts, and the unknowable as fact. I introduced the idea of a poll to see how the average collector would respond to the dominant brand being without logos. I assume (yes, assume, as in: guess the unknowable, but with some insight) that it would effect Topps negatively, much the same way it did Upper Deck and Donruss/DLP. You STATE (as in, presenting facts about what COULD happen in a theoretical future that doesn't exist) that Topps would be fine and that only us "niche" collectors like myself (who you have a personal vendetta with) would have a problem.

You have no facts. You present your opinion as if it were common knowledge, even though it's commonly the contrary. You confuse your own arguments and have no defining point. Lastly, you are simultaneously losing an argument with ME, and a 24-year-old girl; a girl who you tell her opinion TO her. It's no wonder no one here likes you. Your condescending attitude is sad; made sadder still by the fact that you had to bump a 4-day-old thread just to make yourself look silly again.

I'm a grown ass woman thank you very much ;);)
 
Last edited:

BBCgalaxee

Well-known member
Sep 9, 2011
6,475
59
So I opened a box last night, here's my thoughts.

I'm ok with the base cards considering the price point. I do like the all black design too.

I also like the fact the rookies aren't really sp'd (1-2 a pack) so you have a great chance of landing Puig and co.

The clear inserts, ESPECIALLY the thick ones (can't think of the names) are really cool looking! They are the highlight of the product and even the box draws attention.

I got two irrelevant "vet" autos which is basically what I expected given the price point. It would have been better if the autos were more prospect driven but it is what it is.

The dufex, make that nufex, inserts are definitely NOT up to par with the originals, not even close.

The originals had that real textured look. These just look dull but I guess the cost is much less to make them.

As a store owner, whenever a family comes in wanting to get their youngsters involved in cards, I nearly always suggest base Topps because it's damn awesome with the variety & price point.

But I will definitely be suggesting this issue as well.

As long as you don't expect the moon, this is a nice issue.






Sent from my HTCONE using Freedom Card Board mobile app
 

PoseyBuster

Banned
Jul 17, 2013
1,835
0
So I opened a box last night, here's my thoughts.

I'm ok with the base cards considering the price point. I do like the all black design too.

I also like the fact the rookies aren't really sp'd (1-2 a pack) so you have a great chance of landing Puig and co.

The clear inserts, ESPECIALLY the thick ones (can't think of the names) are really cool looking! They are the highlight of the product and even the box draws attention.

I got two irrelevant "vet" autos which is basically what I expected given the price point. It would have been better if the autos were more prospect driven but it is what it is.

The dufex, make that nufex, inserts are definitely NOT up to par with the originals, not even close.

The originals had that real textured look. These just look dull but I guess the cost is much less to make them.

As a store owner, whenever a family comes in wanting to get their youngsters involved in cards, I nearly always suggest base Topps because it's damn awesome with the variety & price point.

But I will definitely be suggesting this issue as well.

As long as you don't expect the moon, this is a nice issue.






Sent from my HTCONE using Freedom Card Board mobile app

Yah like I had mentioned, I don't like this product any will probably never buy a single or pack of it. BUT Like I also said- the clear cards look really really cool.

I like what you mentioned- this product is PERFECT to recommend to parents whose kids are new to the Hobby. Along with the staple of Topps base and the inserts from this set- I can see how the inserts would appeal to younger kids, they look pretty cool to kids. Just not to me :p
 

rsmath

Active member
Nov 8, 2008
6,086
1
For all of you who complain that the Base card is so bland -

Its a good thing the Base cards are bland. They are Base cards.

have you even seen the preview or watch the rip video of this product that Panini just posted to their blog?

You'll see that this product is perfect for having decent base card design because the inserts -- with the "acetate" and nufex -- will still outshine even a decent thought-out base card design instead of a any-kindergartner-can-design-it base card design.

The base card blandness is why I"m not purposely trying to put together a set for my collection. If the price point fell far enough since I feel current secondary market prices are a bit high for what you get, I'd probably build the base set anyway since I would have some boxes to rip for the blog and have a good random selection of the "premium" inserts and some okay vet autos for the PC.
 

predatorkj

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
11,871
2
Ok, as per usual unique and hive are in a death match. In any case, I think unique has s point in the simple fact that there would be player and set collectors, logos or not. The fact that bowman is the only set available with draft picks featured in MLB uniforms has made it hard for others to compete. But, there are still people buying draft pick cards without the logos. So I think if you take logos away from base veteran cards and inserts, or take them away from bowman, both would hurt. So I think it's not such a niche driven problem. Both niches would lose out.

Also, I believe the reason people are happy to buy products like this is because topps is nice and all...but dammit, I want some variety. Panini is absolutely off the chain with their football stuff. I'd love to see it with baseball. And Leaf is no chump either. So I'll buy cards from these manufactures. But you give them a license to put logos on their cards and I think the gloves come off. In a weird way, maybe topps knows this and is simply trying to relax during the calm before the storm. Maybe they figure one of these manufacturers is going to get a license and topps will be on their top toes for a while so they are saving their best for that time.
 

hive17

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
21,426
24
Ok, as per usual unique and hive are in a death match. In any case, I think unique has s point in the simple fact that there would be player and set collectors, logos or not. The fact that bowman is the only set available with draft picks featured in MLB uniforms has made it hard for others to compete. But, there are still people buying draft pick cards without the logos. So I think if you take logos away from base veteran cards and inserts, or take them away from bowman, both would hurt. So I think it's not such a niche driven problem. Both niches would lose out.

Also, I believe the reason people are happy to buy products like this is because topps is nice and all...but dammit, I want some variety. Panini is absolutely off the chain with their football stuff. I'd love to see it with baseball. And Leaf is no chump either. So I'll buy cards from these manufactures. But you give them a license to put logos on their cards and I think the gloves come off. In a weird way, maybe topps knows this and is simply trying to relax during the calm before the storm. Maybe they figure one of these manufacturers is going to get a license and topps will be on their top toes for a while so they are saving their best for that time.

My whole point is that, without MLB logos, Topps comes even with Panini and Leaf and Upper Deck; maybe a little better because of history, but they fall. And it would be a BIG fall. People collected Upper Deck for decades; then they lost their MLB license and that was it for them. The same thing happened with Donruss after 2005. Unique just doesn't want to admit that. He'd rather take the stance that MLB logos only matter to us dirty, immoral prospectors (proving he has zero clue how prospectors make money, but I digress); he says this because he takes every opportunity he can to troll an angle he thinks is anti-prospecting/money-making in the hobby.
 

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