A_Pharis
Active member
I give you more credit than that, Jeff. The last thing I think of you in a long line of traits is any form of low mental aptitude.
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If he is doubling, that's not a great buy.. On $185 cost buyback leaf items, our cost to make is 150.00!!!!
There is a place for this in the market. At a tight margin, customers love the opportunity to gamble a bit with solid valued pulls.
It's not for everyone. But, over the years I've come to the conclusion that the hobby dollar will be the deciding vote. What scares me is these "new" entrants have no accountability and no real "skins in the game"..
Leaf does $20mil per year in sales (only $1 million or so in buybacks).. I can confidently say that we are easily the company in this part of the market which is (a) most financially solid and (b) most invested in the business long term..
BG
I give you more credit than that, Jeff. The last thing I think of you in a long line of traits is any form of low mental aptitude.
Brian,
Thanks for chiming in. You are correct in your statements, it will take us quite a few releases to get a hold even in the tiny niche market we have entered into. Hopefully we can chat at the Summit.
Just to clear this up, we are NOT doubling our money. My margin is almost exactly as Leaf stated above, and we have no where near the print run.
Are you kidding me?
Jesus, it's like you WANT to argue about something that's completely irrelevant. Who the XXXX cares? The bottom line is that this industry is shady. Period. Anyone who's been it 4 years or 30 years or 3 minutes can tell that.
I love baseball and he doesn't make a baseball product in my view (though I spoke nothing of his intelligence or character).
You don't understand my argument? I guess I will slow it down for you: this is simply the most recent and most explicit result of what used to be a hobby about baseball devolving into straight gambling. Topps at least makes a baseball product through a relationship with the content. Lottery tickets at least benefit our parks and other public works. I don't see the positives of this product.
That is all. Simple enough for you this time?
the fact you don't understand that I understand EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE SAYING is my point...you don't like this entire genre of product, you just don't like the entire concept...well I don't collect UFC, or Hockey and really I don't even collect much football or basketball, but I don't go around slamming that entire concept because it isn't my thing, how can anyone take your insult towards his product serious when you said up front you were going to be blindly against it no matter what?
Brian, I have NO CLUE how much Will spent, I have no clue how much you guys, or Topps, Panini, etc spend. I appreciate everything that ALL OF YOU do. From the biggest company to the upstarts, as long as it's done legit and fairly then I'm all for giving the people what they want, even if it's not for me. I just took offense to people bad-mouthing the guy because in my little experience it seems to me like he could not have been more upfront about it all and appears to have busted his tail to try and make as many people happy as possible.
the fact you don't understand that I understand EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE SAYING is my point...you don't like this entire genre of product, you just don't like the entire concept...well I don't collect UFC, or Hockey and really I don't even collect much football or basketball, but I don't go around slamming that entire concept because it isn't my thing, how can anyone take your insult towards his product serious when you said up front you were going to be blindly against it no matter what?
Brian, I have NO CLUE how much Will spent, I have no clue how much you guys, or Topps, Panini, etc spend. I appreciate everything that ALL OF YOU do. From the biggest company to the upstarts, as long as it's done legit and fairly then I'm all for giving the people what they want, even if it's not for me. I just took offense to people bad-mouthing the guy because in my little experience it seems to me like he could not have been more upfront about it all and appears to have busted his tail to try and make as many people happy as possible.
I would like to go back on topic here and point out I have seen a few more breaks and this stuff is complete trash, people got burnt bad.
Also if the people on BO where so into this product why cant I find tons of breaks on their board?
Carry on.
I still want to get a look at the checklist they said they released.
I would like to go back on topic here and point out I have seen a few more breaks and this stuff is complete trash, people got burnt bad.
Also if the people on BO where so into this product why cant I find tons of breaks on their board?
Carry on.
I still want to get a look at the checklist they said they released.
I would like to go back on topic here and point out I have seen a few more breaks and this stuff is complete trash, people got burnt bad.
Also if the people on BO where so into this product why cant I find tons of breaks on their board?
Carry on.
Checklist has been listed on our Forum for about a week.
Interesting take. 14% of the product has been opened. 2 recent single box breaks have been posted on Blowout:
1) Mike Zunino Blue Ref Auto- 9.5/10 + a bonus auto.
2) Francisco Lindor Base Auto 9.5/10 + bonus Orange Ref.
If you consider that trash, I'll disagree, but thanks for your input.
You are not seeing a ton of box breaks on Blowout for a valid reason, most cases were sold to dealers. Not many single boxes were available.
And the Lindor sells for $49, and unless he gets so hot that he is the next Mike Trout, that is not a $150-200 card no matter what way you try and spin it.
Yeah, when I read the comments espousing the benefits of a product like this, I realize that I am just not a part of that group.
I like getting base cards. I like sorting them and ordering them, and I even like going through every few years and deciding which to give/throw away. I like looking back at which players were 'insert worthy' and thinking 'oh man, I wish I knew i had this card 6 months ago'. I enjoy the physical act of opening packs and the thrill that comes from an unexpected hit. When I buy a box of a Topps or Panini product, I know that I am not going to get a high value card. Then, when I do, I am all the more thrilled because it is unexpected. I actually, strangely, develop a certain attachment to cards I pull over cards I buy. It is much harder for me to sell cards I pull because I open packs so rarely. This is doubly true for boxes I receive as gifts.
The target audience for items like this is folks that only look for hits out of boxes and think of buying wax as an expense and not an entertainment cost. Resale value of things I pull tends not to matter a lick to me, even when I buy prospect products. Prospect products allow me to create a whole new group of players to follow that I otherwise wouldn't. I really only rip and flip when I see retail products put out a few days early, and frankly as I live in the middle of nowhere, that is rare.
I don't look down on folks who like products like this a whole lot. I see that group as folks that see an avenue to make money but do not have the necessary start up capital or access to do it in the most efficient way. I don't see this as gambling per se. I see this as one group buying up many high end prospect cards and then controlling the manner of distribution, and folks realizing that the only access point is through the product, and buying for that reason. I think there is a gambling element, but the biggest aspect is access.
Bottom line: I don't open wax just to get big hits, and to some extent it never enters into my mind when I do. I can understand the streamlining argument--that this takes out the hassle of base cards taking up space and what not, and makes it more likely for you to hit a particular, desired card. However, it does not appeal to me.
What many folks don't realize is that products like this will be huge factors in the prospecting crash that is going to happen in the next few years. But that might be another tangent for another day.