World Series Game 6 Thread (BOS v STL, Sox lead 3-2)

Brewer Andy · Oct 27, 2013

Re: World Series Game 3 Thread (BOS v STL, tied 1-1)

A_Pharis said:
Meh. It's a call that could have been chalked up to bad base running just as much as a bad throw to third. Like I said just above, had Middlebrooks left his legs down it would be "MIDDLEBROOKS LEFT his legs RIGHT ON THE BASE LINE". Except - in this case - had Craig not come off over a foot toward 2nd base , he would have missed Middlebrooks completely.

Problem with that theory is Middlebrooks was looking at Craig and knew right where he was. It was a ballsy move but game was over either way so I can't blame him for trying

Bosox3 · Oct 27, 2013

phillyfan0417 said:
Read rule 7.06

not sure whats worse..the call or you knowing where to find the rule. lol

A_Pharis · Oct 27, 2013

phillyfan0417 said:
Read rule 7.06

I just think that it's pretty harsh to lean a call the way it was when it was both bad base running and a bad throw.

Bosox3 · Oct 27, 2013

Brewer Andy said:
Problem with that theory is Middlebrooks was looking at Craig and knew right where he was. It was a ballsy move but game was over either way so I can't blame him for trying

haha..and you know this how? he was looking at the ball..not the runner till craig was on top of him.

Austin · Oct 27, 2013

A_Pharis said:
Look at the route Craig took off of the bag. He actually looks more like he did that intentionally to draw the obstruction call. (He comes off the 2nd base side of 3rd base bag a good foot and a half)

Oh come on. Do you actually think Craig tried to draw an obstruction call in a situation like that, when he would have easily scored had he not tripped over Middlebrooks?

And Craig getting up on the inside of the bag was just the way he bounced up from the slide (he's playing hurt and awkward too).

Whether Middlebrook's obstruction was intentional or not, it doesn't matter. That's the rule.
The ump said Craig would have scored if he wasn't blocked.
It's like in football, when a DB interferes with a wide receiver.
It doesn't matter if the DB tried to grab the receiver or not.

I don't care about either team so I'm not biased, but the ump clearly made the correct call, based on the rules.

phillyfan0417 · Oct 27, 2013

World Series Game 3 Thread (BOS v STL, tied 1-1)

Bosox3 said:
not sure whats worse..the call or you knowing where to find the rule. lol

It was posted on twitter, lol

A_Pharis · Oct 27, 2013

Brewer Andy said:
Problem with that theory is Middlebrooks was looking at Craig and knew right where he was. It was a ballsy move but game was over either way so I can't blame him for trying

Craig also knew where Middlebrooks was. Like I said - Middlebrooks was screwed legs up or down. I think Middlebrooks made the right move lifting his legs, because that - at least - cleared the base path.

Someone asked me why I haven't acknowledged Middlebrooks lifting his legs, but I've yet to see anyone dispute the fact that Middlebrooks' legs being lifted cleared the base path. Given that, had Craig taken a proper leave from 3rd, there would have been no tripping.

A_Pharis · Oct 27, 2013

All I am saying is.. look at the base path. Look at where Craig is running from. Look at Middlebrooks watching the ball that just went by him... and look at the guy who called the obstruction.

ben.z2010 · Oct 27, 2013

World Series Game 3 Thread (BOS v STL, tied 1-1)

A_Pharis said:
Bad call. Middlebrooks made a play on the ball and fell. He even attempted to lift his feet off of the base path. Look at the route Craig took off of the bag. He actually looks more like he did that intentionally to draw the obstruction call. (He comes off the 2nd base side of 3rd base bag a good foot and a half)

Couldn't agree more. Hated that call and hate seeing a great game end that way.

Liberate Baltimore · Oct 27, 2013

It may have been bad baserunning but he was not out of the lines. Therefore, that shifts the responsibility to Middlebrooks who, where accidentally or not, obstructed Craig. The actual LIFTING the legs caused the call.

Brewer Andy · Oct 27, 2013

Re: World Series Game 3 Thread (BOS v STL, tied 1-1)

A_Pharis said:
Craig also knew where Middlebrooks was. Like I said - Middlebrooks was screwed legs up or down. I think Middlebrooks made the right move lifting his legs, because that - at least - cleared the base path.

Someone asked me why I haven't acknowledged Middlebrooks lifting his legs, but I've yet to see anyone dispute the fact that Middlebrooks' legs being lifted cleared the base path. Given that, had Craig taken a proper leave from 3rd, there would have been no tripping.

I'll acknowledge that, but Craig scrambling up from a feet first slide....a rare situation where the Rulebook also acknowledges this can be a "tough judegment call". I still think it was the right one and I hate the Cardinals lol

Austin · Oct 27, 2013

Some of you are acting like the players had plenty of time to consider their leg placement and body position.
It was a split second bang-bang play.
Middlebrooks and Craig reacted instinctively.
Plus Craig is hurt and can barely run.
Bottom line: The ump made the correct call based on the rules.

A_Pharis · Oct 27, 2013

The path Craig took off of the bag. He actually took a full step off of the bag toward 2nd (where he saw Middlebrooks). Also notice the eyeline of the ump the entire time.
I just think Craig's base running was just as much at fault. In the end it could have just as easy been un-called to bad baserunning.

Brewer Andy · Oct 27, 2013

Re: World Series Game 3 Thread (BOS v STL, tied 1-1)

Has Craig touched home yet?

A_Pharis · Oct 27, 2013

Brewer Andy said:
Has Craig touched home yet?

Not sure if you're seriously asking this, but I do believe he slid across home through Salty's tag.

A_Pharis · Oct 27, 2013

Actually - out of curiosity - I checked the video from all available angles.

This is the closest his leg/foot gets to home plate. Now - the camera cuts to his face as he gets up so it's possible his toe slipped over (when he finished sliding he was actually farther right than in the pic). When the team came out, they lifted him toward their dugout.. so it's actually quite possible he didn't touch the plate.

bmp1971 · Oct 27, 2013

phillyfan0417 said:
Read rule 7.06

Rule 7.06 "A fielder is "in the act of fielding" and it is NOT obstruction, if, his block of the base, is a fluid, continuous result of his effort to glove the ball.
Separate, discontinuous movement, whose sole purpose is to block the base, is obstruction."

100% bull*&^% call. Craig tripped because he panicked. No way the Cardinals deserve to win that game on that call.

A_Pharis · Oct 27, 2013

bmp1971 said:
Rule 7.06 "A fielder is "in the act of fielding" and it is NOT obstruction, if, his block of the base, is a fluid, continuous result of his effort to glove the ball.
Separate, discontinuous movement, whose sole purpose is to block the base, is obstruction."

100% bull*&^% call. Craig tripped because he's a dip*&^% and got himself thrown out. No way the Cardinals deserve to win that game on that call.

I'm not an expert on rules so I won't debate it. I will say, however, that the rule as it reads, there, puts Middlebrooks in the position where he landed and possibly making an attempt (whether you think he did it to block or not) to actually clear the base path (see the first pic I posted). The ump that was asked to confirm the call (at third) didn't see anything until Craig was already on top of Middlebrooks.

I'll stand by "bad call", but I can accept the human element in calls.

joey12508 · Oct 27, 2013

Intentional or not, it was the correct call. its the umps judgement.

nyc3 · Oct 27, 2013

Damn maybe some of the vaseline from game 1 was still on the ball forcing that bad throw..

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