Jake Peavy Traded to the Giants For Edwin Escobar/Heath Hembree

The Yankees only have one untouchable prospect IMO, Severino. But the Red Sox won't deal Lester within the division to the only team in the division that would be able to offer him a huge long term deal.

Also Lester didn't do any favors to the Red Sox be going out with those comments publicly, he is either an idiot or is giving a big covert FU to the Red Sox. Think about it, if he actually felt that way, why alert potential suitors that you want to go back there after the season? It just diminishes the potential return.

scotty216brs said:

I hope they start selling. Trade Lester, Gomes, Drew, Uehara, heck even Napoli if they can get a decent return. No need to cling on to these guys if we are not going to make the playoffs. The only guy I would not want them to trade that I've heard teams have heavy interest in is Andrew Miller...I can see him being Uehara's replacement next year.

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Agree. You guys could get a ton of great prospects for Lester, Napoli, and Uehara. Drew has virtually no value however.

scotty216brs said:

I'm pretty sure the Red Sox have all the leverage in this situation. "Don't want to give us a top prospect? Too bad, we'll hold on to him thanks." Red Sox don't mind holding onto him and either working out a deal after the season or giving him a QO. The only reason we would even trade him is because we can get a good return for him. It's not like Peavy in which we wanted him gone to open up a spot in the rotation for someone else.

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The only reason you would trade him is because your GM thought that he would accept a hometown discount and offered a ****** offer that would've offended most people. (4years 70 million I think). Then they told him, well Pedroia took a discount so you should too which peaved him. Red Sox management is stupid to think that he should take a discount that low. He would easily get 5-6 years of 20-25 million a year IMO. Red Sox management think that all these players should take hometown discounts. Its a business.

They will have to hold onto him if they think they can get a top 5-7 pick in baseball for 2 months and then re sign him. I know its your team but that is absurd to think that you could get that return and then resign him. You can go ahead and give him a QO but that will hardly effect his value as he is on a different level than Santana, Cruz, and Morales when it hurt them last year.

Joshua.Roundtree said:

The Yankees only have one untouchable prospect IMO, Severino. But the Red Sox won't deal Lester within the division to the only team in the division that would be able to offer him a huge long term deal.

Also Lester didn't do any favors to the Red Sox be going out with those comments publicly, he is either an idiot or is giving a big covert FU to the Red Sox. Think about it, if he actually felt that way, why alert potential suitors that you want to go back there after the season? It just diminishes the potential return.

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Lester has said for a long time now that he wants to play his career in Boston. This shouldn't come as surprise to any of the GMs across the league. If other teams want to trade for him and sign him to an extension then you best make him an offer he can't refuse...

Joshua.Roundtree said:

The Yankees only have one untouchable prospect IMO, Severino. But the Red Sox won't deal Lester within the division to the only team in the division that would be able to offer him a huge long term deal.

Also Lester didn't do any favors to the Red Sox be going out with those comments publicly, he is either an idiot or is giving a big covert FU to the Red Sox. Think about it, if he actually felt that way, why alert potential suitors that you want to go back there after the season? It just diminishes the potential return.

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Judge is near untouchable as well IMO. Red Sox would be stupid to send him to the Yanks without clearing out their farm and I doubt the Yanks would do it.

Lester is fine by saying that IMO. The Sox already know they aren't going to be able to resign him unless they almost double their offer. He's going to get some big offers on the FA market from some big clubs and the Sox have low balled the crap out of him.

scotty216brs said:

Lester has said for a long time now that he wants to play his career in Boston. This shouldn't come as surprise to any of the GMs across the league. If other teams want to trade for him and sign him to an extension then you best make him an offer he can't refuse...

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He can say that all he wants. Money talks in this league though and 95% of the time players take the best offer. The Sox need to drastically increase their offer if they want to resign him and all of baseball knows this.

Let me ask you something maxe (because your a Yankee fan and well, you know everything...) Say the Dodgers do trade Pederson for Lester and then they go on and win the World Series. Is that a bad trade? Seems to me like you think the Dodgers value their top prospect over winning a World Series..

maxe0213 said:

You won't get a top prospect from any team and then re sign him the next offseason. That just won't happen. You could get Joc but only if lester decides to sign for longer there.

2 month rentals don't net top 5-10 prospects in baseball. Simple as that.

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It does happen.

Look what the Astros got in return for a guy who gave his new team just 25 total innings pitched, including just 1 save and 1 loss (post-season), in a deadline deal with Boston back in 1990:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bagweje01.shtml

I think LA will be willing to gamble on such a trade (Pederson for Lester) even if there's no guarantee he'll sign with LA beyond 2014, but only if the brass determines their biggest need to get them into being WS favorites is a quality SP. If they need other help more or equal to a SP, then I doubt a deal gets done. Seems LA may have other needs to address beyond their rotation. We shall see!

Pederson would be a huge get for Boston. I like this trade scenario and hope it pans out for both teams.

scotty216brs said:

Let me ask you something maxe (because your a Yankee fan and well, you know everything...) Say the Dodgers do trade Pederson for Lester and then they go on and win the World Series. Is that a bad trade? Seems to me like you think the Dodgers value their top prospect over winning a World Series..

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Because that clearly matters in this conversation SMH. It would be a marginal trade and they know it. The Dodgers are well positioned to win the WS now anyways. They are clearly the best team in the NL IMO. They know that Pederson is their future in the OF and getting rid of him would demolish the farm besides Urias. I would almost 100% guarantee the Dodgers will not give up Pederson for Lester. Maybe for Price as he's a much better get for them but not Lester especially with the crazy idea that he would go back to the Sox in the off season.

bmp1971 said:

It does happen.

Look what the Astros got in return for a guy who gave his new team just 25 total innings pitched, including just 1 save and 1 loss (post-season), in a deadline deal with Boston back in 1990:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bagweje01.shtml

I think LA will be willing to gamble on such a trade (Pederson for Lester) even if there's no guarantee he'll sign with LA beyond 2014, but only if the brass determines their biggest need to get them into being WS favorites is a quality SP. If they need other help more or equal to a SP, then I doubt a deal gets done. Seems LA may have other needs to address beyond their rotation. We shall see!

Pederson would be a huge get for Boston. I like this trade scenario and hope it pans out for both teams.

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Your quoting a trade from 1990..... Thats all I need to hear. Times have changed, teams value prospects much higher now than they did in the early 90's. Show me a trade recently in the past two to three years where that's happened. It doesn't. A's gave up Russell (top five consensus prospect) and a few other pieces for Samardjza who is at the same level as Lester and has an extra year as well as being younger and Hammel who is a solid 3-4 pitcher. You won't get close to that for Lester for two months.

I'd love to see some other fans besides the Sox fans in here backing this trade up. Yes the Sox would love to get Joc. He'd be a great add. But Lester for two months doesn't get it done and everyone knows that.

Nobody, no front office execs, no scouts, nobody has thrown around the idea that Lester nets Pederson. I think you guys could get Seager for 2 months of Lester, not Price though.

scotty216brs said:

Let me ask you something maxe (because your a Yankee fan and well, you know everything...) Say the Dodgers do trade Pederson for Lester and then they go on and win the World Series. Is that a bad trade? Seems to me like you think the Dodgers value their top prospect over winning a World Series..

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If it happens, i'll eat crow, but I would put the chances at less than .5%. Pederson is far too much to give up for 2 months of Lester, it's not hard to get that.

maxe0213 said:

Because that clearly matters in this conversation SMH. It would be a marginal trade and they know it. The Dodgers are well positioned to win the WS now anyways. They are clearly the best team in the NL IMO. They know that Pederson is their future in the OF and getting rid of him would demolish the farm besides Urias. I would almost 100% guarantee the Dodgers will not give up Pederson for Lester. Maybe for Price as he's a much better get for them but not Lester especially with the crazy idea that he would go back to the Sox in the off season.

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Of course it does, I value your opinion. A couple points....first of all, Pederson alone would not net the Dodgers David Price. It would be Pederson ++ another top prospect and then a couple lesser prospects. So to say that it would be a 1 for 1 for Price, that would never happen. That's why it would be intriguing to trade for Lester, as it would be a 1 for 1 swap. I agree they arguably are the top team in the NL, but I honestly don't think they are the best team in baseball, I'd say as of right now Oakland are WS favorites. If the Dodgers do trade for a Lester, I'd say hands down they would be the favorites in baseball....do you agree with that?

If you haven't noticed, the Dodgers want to bring a championship to the city of LA....if that means trading away some future pieces then I don't think they shy away from doing that. Like I said they have a window of opportunity within the next 5 years and if they miss their shot then they messed up big time, and they are going to wish they had made some moves to better the team. Oakland traded their top prospect, and look how much better their team got for this year. Anytime you can add a top pitcher to bolster your rotation, that's a great move to make...(assuming you are a team that is trying to win now)

Now I keep seeing you saying that teams don't give up top prospects for 2 month rentals but they do, even as recently as last year with Garza, a couple years ago with Greinke. Neither one was pitching as good as Lester is now, and neither one has had the postseason success he's had either. But teams want to add that #1 starter to try to win it all. Obviously teams would like to trade for a pitcher who is still under contract for the following season, but teams are reluctant to make those moves nowadays with the 2nd Wild Card. As it stands right now Tampa Bay is not going to trade Price and might wait until the offseason to deal him.

Do you think the Athletics wanted to trade away Russell?? Hell no, especially with them going to have a void at SS next year. But they knew they had to make a big move if they are going to make that push. Like I said before, Red Sox don't have to trade Lester, but if some team is going to offer them a nice package of prospects, the'll listen.

maxe0213 said:

Your quoting a trade from 1990..... Thats all I need to hear. Times have changed, teams value prospects much higher now than they did in the early 90's. Show me a trade recently in the past two to three years where that's happened. It doesn't. A's gave up Russell (top five consensus prospect) and a few other pieces for Samardjza who is at the same level as Lester and has an extra year as well as being younger and Hammel who is a solid 3-4 pitcher. You won't get close to that for Lester for two months.

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Lester has a 155 ERA+ compared to a 139 ERA+ this year for Samardzija, as well as a better K/9 and a better K/BB.....oh yeah and a postseason ERA near 2 with two World Series rings. That's not a knock on Samardzija, but they are not on the same level in terms of who's going to help you win in October. I think it was a great trade for the A's, and I have them pegged as WS favorites...so I hope it pays off for them. If it does, you might see more teams trading top prospects to get ace pitchers, because really the only way to get them now is through the draft or trading, because you see more and more pitchers get locked up to long term deals. You can' rely on FA anymore to get your ace.

scotty216brs said:

It depends on how bad the Dodgers want to win a WS. If they feel this is their year, then you get the best available SP on the trade market who is a proven ace in October. Keep in mind the Dodgers essentially are in the midst of a 5 year window that they NEED to win a WS or else all of the money they spent on all these players will have gone to waste. If they were to obtain Lester then I personally don't think there is a team that could beat them come October because as we all know, starting pitching is what wins you games in the postseason.

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I can't imagine Kershaw, Greinke and Lester losing a five-game or seven-game series. That's almost unfair.

scotty216brs said:

Of course it does, I value your opinion. A couple points....first of all, Pederson alone would not net the Dodgers David Price. It would be Pederson ++ another top prospect and then a couple lesser prospects. So to say that it would be a 1 for 1 for Price, that would never happen. That's why it would be intriguing to trade for Lester, as it would be a 1 for 1 swap. I agree they arguably are the top team in the NL, but I honestly don't think they are the best team in baseball, I'd say as of right now Oakland are WS favorites. If the Dodgers do trade for a Lester, I'd say hands down they would be the favorites in baseball....do you agree with that?

If you haven't noticed, the Dodgers want to bring a championship to the city of LA....if that means trading away some future pieces then I don't think they shy away from doing that. Like I said they have a window of opportunity within the next 5 years and if they miss their shot then they messed up big time, and they are going to wish they had made some moves to better the team. Oakland traded their top prospect, and look how much better their team got for this year. Anytime you can add a top pitcher to bolster your rotation, that's a great move to make...(assuming you are a team that is trying to win now)

Now I keep seeing you saying that teams don't give up top prospects for 2 month rentals but they do, even as recently as last year with Garza, a couple years ago with Greinke. Neither one was pitching as good as Lester is now, and neither one has had the postseason success he's had either. But teams want to add that #1 starter to try to win it all. Obviously teams would like to trade for a pitcher who is still under contract for the following season, but teams are reluctant to make those moves nowadays with the 2nd Wild Card. As it stands right now Tampa Bay is not going to trade Price and might wait until the offseason to deal him.

Do you think the Athletics wanted to trade away Russell?? Hell no, especially with them going to have a void at SS next year. But they knew they had to make a big move if they are going to make that push. Like I said before, Red Sox don't have to trade Lester, but if some team is going to offer them a nice package of prospects, the'll listen.





Lester has a 155 ERA+ compared to a 139 ERA+ this year for Samardzija, as well as a better K/9 and a better K/BB.....oh yeah and a postseason ERA near 2 with two World Series rings. That's not a knock on Samardzija, but they are not on the same level in terms of who's going to help you win in October. I think it was a great trade for the A's, and I have them pegged as WS favorites...so I hope it pays off for them. If it does, you might see more teams trading top prospects to get ace pitchers, because really the only way to get them now is through the draft or trading, because you see more and more pitchers get locked up to long term deals. You can' rely on FA anymore to get your ace.

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OKay. A couple points to address. IF they acquire another top starter then yes i believe they are hands down the best team. as of right now i still believe the dodgers and angels are better teams in the post season than the A's. Price could be had for pederson, lee, and two more top 15-20 prospects from their farm. I don't think you get what I said about Oakland/chicago's trade. they traded Russell and a few other pieces for Samardzja (who is younger and just as good this year) AND Hammel. The Sox would need to add something else and this would probably need to expand to a bigger trade. Pederson just has more value than two months of Lester and I highly doubt that the Sox Management has enough balls to even trade Lester. I think that they would much rather hold him and hopefully sign him (although their current offers have been absurd).

For Garza they didn't get a top top prospect. You guys keep quoting trades that aren't similar at all. Garza netted CJ, Olt, and some other guy. Neither were top guys. CJ had issues and had been injured. Joc is a top 10 prospect maybe even higher in the minors. Something that none of these trades had that continually are brought up.

Russell was made expendable because of the play of Robertson. He started playing very well and can fill Russell's void (obviously not at the same caliber but definitely on a still at a very high level). THe Dodgers don't have that luxury. They don't have other top prospects that can fill Pederson's void. Pederson will only be given up for Price or for Lester with the guarantee of an extension or Hammels.

They are DEFINITELY on the same level in value (samardjza and Lester). You get an extra year with Samardjza. THats key to what netted them Russell. Its been said over and over and over again that if he didn't have the extra year they wouldn't have got as much. Plus they got another very good starter in Hammell. Russell is ranked slightly higher but not much than Pederson. You just won't get that kind of return for a 2 month player. Its simple as that.

The only people saying that Pederson for Lester would be great are Sox fans because they know that it would be great for the Sox. I'm still waiting for anyone to come in who isn't a Sox fan to say that this is a reasonable trade.

Lester is a worse VALUE than Samardjza(never said he was better or worse in terms of pitching, but in terms of trade value he has lower value because of the contract). The cubs had to give up 1 great pitcher with an extra year and another solid pitcher for a top 5 prospect and then Mckinney and straily as a throw in. That netted them a top 5 prospect.
The red sox would be giving up 1 great pitcher with only two months left. They won't get a top 10 prospect unless Lester is resigning. Now, I think they could get 2-3 top 30 prospects but nobody in the top 10 unless he's resigning.


All this is moot, as I truly believe that the Sox will never have the guts to trade their hometown lovebird in Lester. Just like the Yanks couldn't trade Cano like they should've last year. Hometown guys getting traded pisses off the fans. The Sox won't do it. I would almost guarantee it.

wow, look at hembree. Gives up a game losing grand slam homer to Joc Pederson and the Giants boot him out of the organization!

from an Isotopes fan POV (16 games a season), I feel he was a reliable closer for Fresno - I don't recall him (other than the Pederson GS) having problems securing a fresno win against ABQ.

brian26 said:

I can't imagine Kershaw, Greinke and Lester losing a five-game or seven-game series. That's almost unfair.

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Exactly why LA is prob on the brink of giving Boston whatever it wants for Lester.

rsmath said:

wow, look at hembree. Gives up a game losing grand slam homer to Joc Pederson and the Giants boot him out of the organization!

from an Isotopes fan POV (16 games a season), I feel he was a reliable closer for Fresno - I don't recall him (other than the Pederson GS) having problems securing a fresno win against ABQ.

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I see the Sox picking up Hembree as a sign Uehara is about to go also. I'm excited to see what prospects Boston can get for some of its aging players. Josh Bell? Steven Piscotty? Joc Pederson? Who else?

bmp1971 said:

Exactly why LA is prob on the brink of giving Boston whatever it wants for Lester.



I see the Sox picking up Hembree as a sign Uehara is about to go also. I'm excited to see what prospects Boston can get for some of its aging players. Josh Bell? Steven Piscotty? Joc Pederson? Who else?

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The haul for Peavy was very very good for Boston. Everyone says these guys were junk but the Sox may just keep building their pitching depth and they may be able to ship some of it off for a big bat which would even out the great pitching prospects with a stud hitter.

Great move on the Peavy deal and I'm curious to see how far they go with this sell off.

I'm not impressed with the Giants pickups of Peavy and Uggla.

maxe0213 said:

All this is moot, as I truly believe that the Sox will never have the guts to trade their hometown lovebird in Lester. Just like the Yanks couldn't trade Cano like they should've last year. Hometown guys getting traded pisses off the fans. The Sox won't do it. I would almost guarantee it.

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To that I say: Nomar Garciaparra.

shadowking86 said:

To that I say: Nomar Garciaparra.

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Carlton Fisk and Fred Lynn too.

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I'm not in the Boston area, or follow them much at all, but when/why did Koji become available? Is he a possible FA they don't think they can re-sign?

If I was a GM, that'd be my Move. Maybe not my Closer, but certainly a top-of-line Reliever. Detroit and LAA could definitely use him for the stretch, if he's really available.

And Hamels for Pederson makes ALOT more sense for LA than "renting" Lester...

shadowking86 said:

To that I say: Nomar Garciaparra.

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True, they have.

bmp1971 said:

Carlton Fisk and Fred Lynn too.

Sent from my LG-VM696 using Freedom Card Board mobile app

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Again, I'm not looking for comparisons from years and years and years ago. Keep your comparisons more current. The FO is much different than those days thus the comparison doesn't matter.

I'll eat my words if they do do it but I once again would love for someone OTHER THAN A SOX FAN to come in here and back you guys up. Still have yet to see it as everyone knows Joc for Lester won't happen. Only people who think it will are Boston Fans because they know they'd be pulling one over on LA.

gt2590 said:

I'm not in the Boston area, or follow them much at all, but when/why did Koji become available? Is he a possible FA they don't think they can re-sign?

If I was a GM, that'd be my Move. Maybe not my Closer, but certainly a top-of-line Reliever. Detroit and LAA could definitely use him for the stretch, if he's really available.

And Hamels for Pederson makes ALOT more sense for LA than "renting" Lester...

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Yup. LA would much rather have Hamels or Price and Pederson comes up with a much better value both ways in that case. Not so much with the whole "crazy" idea that Boston would trade lester for a top 10 prospect and then sign him back this off season