2013 HOF

I guess I would like to see raines, morris, bagwell, and biggio get in or close. I think we see the steroid guys get 10% ish of the vote. the debate will be there. some writers are very stubborn on the steroid vote and others are more forgiving. will be an interesting back and forth for the next 10 years or so

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I'm going out on a limb and say Biggio, Bagwell, and Piazza. Schilling very close. Morris and Raines miss the cut. Bonds and Clemens around 40%...Sosa, Mcgwire 20%...Palmeiro 15%

Biggio 81%, Piazza 80%, Bagwell 75.1% :lol:

Schilling 62%

Which is crap. All the names I listed sans Jack Morris should be in the HOF.

Biggio might get in but there have been whispers about him being a user. Remember, steroids don't always equal a size increase. In any case, I do agree that eventually users will get in. There is just too big a chunk of time there that would be left out of the hall. What... Two and a half decades? And you can't consider guys like bagwell squeaky clean just because they haven't been named.

It's a sham if bonds an Clemens are not in!

It's already a hall that celebrates cheaters, drug addicts, killers, fighters, and thieves!

If anyone here thinks steroids were only used from 1989 to 2003 you're a retard. Not like radio from the movie but like a booger eating ****** with an iq of 32. Steroids have been around since the 30s and if you think athletes of the 50s, 60s, and 70s wouldn't have slathered themselves in the clear to get ahead you're sadly mistaken!

Hell prove to me that cal ripens streak wasn't fueled because of greenies and ill dance a jig.

HPC said:

Even if Bonds never took steroids and finished with his current stats, he would NOT get in on the first try because:

A) Voters tend to make first time eligible guys wait it out a year.
B) Bonds was an ass to the media in general throughout his whole career.

Knowing how the voters are, I doubt they would overlook Bond's attitude towards them and ditch their usual routine by voting him in his first time.

Clemens, I would say, might have been an exception and made it his first time but even then it was not a guarantee

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if Bonds put up the same numbers without steroids we would be arguing about him being the best of all time and he would walk into the hall first ballot without question.

mlbsalltimegreats said:

Craig Biggio, Curt Schilling, , Mike Piazza

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These are my picks as well. Please don't pollute the HOF with cheaters.

SilverandBlack said:

if Bonds put up the same numbers without steroids we would be arguing about him being the best of all time and he would walk into the hall first ballot without question.

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No human being has been able to acheive the above. And we will never know what Bonds was *really* capable of. I'll be sick when guys like Mark McGwire and Barry Bopnds are in & Pete is still out.

notjomommasclint said:

It's a sham if bonds an Clemens are not in!

It's already a hall that celebrates cheaters, drug addicts, killers, fighters, and thieves!

If anyone here thinks steroids were only used from 1989 to 2003 you're a retard. Not like radio from the movie but like a booger eating ****** with an iq of 32. Steroids have been around since the 30s and if you think athletes of the 50s, 60s, and 70s wouldn't have slathered themselves in the clear to get ahead you're sadly mistaken!

Hell prove to me that cal ripens streak wasn't fueled because of greenies and ill dance a jig.

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That all may be the case but if you think known roid users are going to get in, well your the retard. Greenies won't keep you out roids will. Unfair, maybe - reality damn skippy.

Everyone knows character plays a part in determining a candidate and a known cheater who juiced up to gain an advantage will lose his chance. They will make examples out of them at the very least.

Do you really think they will reward any known user? It would do a world of good to help keep young athletes off the juice by letting them know they will be kept out if they use/get caught. It would in turn do a world of harm to let any of them in.

As different as the situation is look at Shoeless Joe, he should have been in years ago but will likely never get in. The voters of the Hall are a bunch of stubborn Sob's.

allstars said:

No human being has been able to acheive the above. And we will never know what Bonds was *really* capable of. I'll be sick when guys like Mark McGwire and Barry Bopnds are in & Pete is still out.

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no human being has been able to achieve what, get elected first ballot?

Don't forget integrity

Tom Oates said:

Just posted this in a similar thread on The Bench. Figured I would share my .02 cents here as well.According to the baseball Hall of Fame web site. "They shall be chosen on the basis of playing ability, sportsmanship, character, their contribution to the teams on which they played and to baseball in general."
Based on this statement, Here is how I would decide...

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Krom said:

As different as the situation is look at Shoeless Joe, he should have been in years ago but will likely never get in. The voters of the Hall are a bunch of stubborn Sob's.

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The voters have nothing to do with Shoeless Joe. He was banned from baseball after the 1919 World Series. The first HOF induction was 1933.
Shoeless Joe was never on the ballot, so voters being stubborn is irrelevant.

uniquebaseballcards said:

Don't forget integrity

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if you guys really think sportsmanship and integrity plays a big role in getting elected your nuts. It doesn't hurt if your a great guy and fringe hall of famer but if your an elite player you can be a drunk or wife beater or racist and I'm sure eventually a steroid user and still be a hall of famer. Its hard to say those things matter when you look at who is in the hall of fame. If it was the hall of good guys most of the hall of famers wouldn't be in there.

SilverandBlack said:

if you guys really think sportsmanship and integrity plays a big role in getting elected your nuts. It doesn't hurt if your a great guy and fringe hall of famer but if your an elite player you can be a drunk or wife beater or racist and I'm sure eventually a steroid user and still be a hall of famer. Its hard to say those things matter when you look at who is in the hall of fame. If it was the hall of good guys most of the hall of famers wouldn't be in there.

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Really? Voters say integrity matters all the time nowadays. Last time I remember a voter said integrity influenced voting was a couple days ago in an ESPN article when a voter was quoted as saying exactly that. Frankly if integrity didn't matter Palmeiro and company would already be in.

Integrity wasn't an issue a long time ago simply because players weren't as selfish back then... or at least the opportunity wasn't present for them to be that selfish. Times have changed, and fortunately voting criteria wisely takes this into account.

Wife beating, drunkenness, etc have nothing to do with the game of baseball, HOFers aren't supposed to be saints.

Krom said:

That all may be the case but if you think known roid users are going to get in, well your the retard. Greenies won't keep you out roids will. Unfair, maybe - reality damn skippy.

Everyone knows character plays a part in determining a candidate and a known cheater who juiced up to gain an advantage will lose his chance. They will make examples out of them at the very least.

Do you really think they will reward any known user? It would do a world of good to help keep young athletes off the juice by letting them know they will be kept out if they use/get caught. It would in turn do a world of harm to let any of them in.

As different as the situation is look at Shoeless Joe, he should have been in years ago but will likely never get in. The voters of the Hall are a bunch of stubborn Sob's.

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** you're!!

Oh yeah it's war when I go to grammar! Only on the accusations of Retardation is that allowed lol

I only use the word retarded as socially stunted in the manner of understanding steroids have been a part of sport longer than accepted.

Its Agreed greenies won't keep you out but they are the same thing! That's a double standard..

The hall voters hide behind this moral code but its bullXXXX! Baseball players were thugs and hooligans in 1900 they were scourge and it was a bully game. Many of them are celebrated as forefathers and heroes !You can't just change that all because some voters ride in on their high horse. An acceptable threshold had been established. I think the voters should be held to a moral code too. Cheat on your wife? Done! Drunk driving? Done! Using coffee to help you stay awake to write an article? Done! It's a ped!!

Now I'm for keeping players who tested positive from the collective bargaining agreement of 06?? Forward out of the hall if they make it a stated rule for the hall!

To me the argument players won't do it if they can't get into the hall carries no weight. It's like saying the death penalty deters violent crime. Just no proof!

Now to my attack on the hall of fame!

Ty Cobb killed a man. Or so it's claimed..

Ty Cobb did use (persc) performance enhancing razor sharp cleats) to steal bases and score runs via infliction of pain.

Gaylord perry used pes (performance enhancing silva) to get 300 wins!!

Don sutton used pemb (performance enhancing molested baseballs) to get his 300 wins

Babe Ruth drank bull *****! I'm not sure if this is true but that guy would have cheated he was an orphan!

Corked bats, stealing signs, sliding with cleats up, scuffing baseballs, etc.. Etc.. Have all been around for decades and they are accepted as "character" in the hall! Yet are all performance enhancers!

Seems like a lot of rambling and is a lot of rambling but I stand by my incoherent typing!

shayscards79 said:

But to seriously answer your question... Bonds for sure.... how could a six-time MVP not get in on the first shot?

Clemens has equal amount of hardware to not justify getting in right away.

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Go back under your rock. Both are liars & cheaters. I hope the steroid boys never get in!

allstars said:

Go back under your rock. Both are liars & cheaters. I hope the steroid boys never get in!

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THANK YOU!!!!!!!!

Biggio consumed performance enhancing triple play cereal!!! No way he should get in

Biggio and Bagwell. Killer B's in 2013!

ASTROBURN said:

Biggio and Bagwell. Killer B's in 2013!

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Bobby Bonilla and Barry Bonds?!

allstars said:

Go back under your rock. Both are liars & cheaters. I hope the steroid boys never get in!

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But Piazza is one of your picks? There's quite a bit of suspicion around him.