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Card show promoter question

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Jun 30, 2010
726
0
I don't doubt that there are some dealers that would operate that way... I'm just saying that's on them. If you want to make money, bring what the customers want to buy. If the buyers at this show are spending $50 on quarter cards instead of $5K on T206 slabs, then adjust.

I have heard so much complaining over the years about how difficult it is to make money selling cards, and I sympathize with much of it, but I still see the dealers who keep a broad array of fresh, relevant inventory, well-organized and well-priced, continue to do well. Whether its 25c sales or $100 sales, it's all about always buying, flipping, organizing, developing relationships with customers, etc.

So when someone blames something else (other dealers, customers, the internet, the economy etc) without doing those things... I take it with a big ol grain of salt.

Of course dealers have to adjust to certain market conditions, but in a market such as Atl, which is not the best to begin with( ask any National dealer) a cheaper environment is not my thing. Adjustment or no adjustment.
 

predatorkj

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
11,871
2
Seriously dude.....Even though there are alot of folks that are cheap by nature and that will never change and obviously you indicate that you are that type and you are welcomed here to buy from these folks as well. However, when dealers go from giving good deals to operating in a panic mode state just to generate sales and other dealers follow suit, then yes you are training your buyers to be this way. Laugh all you want but this is what is going on here and you are only looking from your perspective as a buyer.

Plus, even though my sales are not what I or most high dollar dealers would like here in ATL I mostly buy my way out of most shows, so i am pleased. Just today bought 4 or 5 trout autos, a couple of Abreu autos, Abreu 1/1 from Tek, Kobe autos, plenty of Lebron, Trout, Brady RCs. And no steal of deals either......Just buy according to what I feel is a win/win to both parties instead of only looking for steals or cheap deals. Not all together against that, it is just not my thing.....I just happen to be one of those who rarely looks through those cheap boxes. Certainly alot of folks love it.

Well you just come off as kind of upset about it which is why I responded like I did. My apologies if I sounded like a jerk. Trust me, I'm not a cheap collector. I spend more than I care to admit on cards. But I happen to like rookie cards and 90's stuff and I find a lot of both in the bargain bins.

I guess I'm not looking for a steal. Just looking for stuff I collect and things that appeal to me that I haven't seen a lot of. Stuff I don't find online because in some cases I didn't know it existed. Stuff I know I'll find in those bargain bins. The high end stuff is easy as pie to find. Now...if a guy would sell some Bagwell's I needed, I'd be spending like crazy at the shows.

Besides, a lot of these guys selling the higher dollar cards are in no way competitive. It's tough buying high dollar cards, only picking up one or two, and calling it a day, all when you could have saved a fortune on eBay. Like I said, I'll pay more at a show than on eBay. But not by 500% because people go by full high book.
 

togaman

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2008
1,298
26
Houston
I just went to Tristar in Houston today and paid my $ 10 parking plus $ 12 to get in for the four hours I looked around. Do I care about paying $$$ to get pictures or autographs of Mike Tyson, Hulk Hogan, Andy Pettite, Roger Clemens and stand in long lines to see them behind a curtain? No. . Since Im a set builder I appreciate the fact there are some dealers who bring some cheap boxes to sift through. Did that keep me there rather than go over to another guys table who was selling $ 50 to $500 cards, one in particular whom I saw eagle eyeing every person who came to his table. No not really. I saw lot of people going through organized boxes of 60s and buying.
as well so I thought it was good mix of vintage card dealers and some cheaper more current cards. Most of the table dealers I found to be decent guys

Many of the dealer's show boxes were loaded with new Raw Grading Beckett cards freshly graded as Beckett had a table there selling magazines 2 for $ 5 . The grader was hidden behind a curtain doing raw grading for $ 20 late in the day. There is something I find a bit duplicit in the way the grading is handled by Beckett who has a table who is first grading cards at a discount for the table owners who ar both looking to selel their stuff and buy yours . Not to mention the fact that Beckett makes you take your card out of a screwdown holder (at Your risk.. I get it) and then get you to try to cram your card into a thin plastic cheap toploader (risking dinking of corner of card) and hand it to them where it then disappears behind a curtain

PS I will openly admit Im a cheap collector. I don't really need baseball cards so if I can find them cheap I will buy for sets. I much prefer to trade but the days where you could go to a show and you could trade with other show attendees as a thing of the past
 
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Jun 30, 2010
726
0
Well you just come off as kind of upset about it which is why I responded like I did. My apologies if I sounded like a jerk. Trust me, I'm not a cheap collector. I spend more than I care to admit on cards. But I happen to like rookie cards and 90's stuff and I find a lot of both in the bargain bins.

I guess I'm not looking for a steal. Just looking for stuff I collect and things that appeal to me that I haven't seen a lot of. Stuff I don't find online because in some cases I didn't know it existed. Stuff I know I'll find in those bargain bins. The high end stuff is easy as pie to find. Now...if a guy would sell some Bagwell's I needed, I'd be spending like crazy at the shows.

Besides, a lot of these guys selling the higher dollar cards are in no way competitive. It's tough buying high dollar cards, only picking up one or two, and calling it a day, all when you could have saved a fortune on eBay. Like I said, I'll pay more at a show than on eBay. But not by 500% because people go by full high book.

Totally understandable. Just hard to try and promote well-being in the hobby when you have local shows that are comprised with alot of 10/25/50/1.00 cards. Overpaying, however is something none of us like. Of course, even that becomes subjective, especially when people are only going with BOOK values and using Beckett as the buy all/end all, which is another topic altogether. Anyone have Tek diffractors for book(as an example).
 
Jun 30, 2010
726
0
I just went to Tristar in Houston today and paid my $ 10 parking plus $ 12 to get in for the four hours I looked around. Do I care about paying $$$ to get pictures or autographs of Mike Tyson, Hulk Hogan, Andy Pettite, Roger Clemens and stand in long lines to see them behind a curtain? No. . Since Im a set builder I appreciate the fact there are some dealers who bring some cheap boxes to sift through. Did that keep me there rather than go over to another guys table who was selling $ 50 to $500 cards, one in particular whom I saw eagle eyeing every person who came to his table. No not really. I saw lot of people going through organized boxes of 60s and buying.
as well so I thought it was good mix of vintage card dealers and some cheaper more current cards. Most of the table dealers I found to be decent guys

Many of the dealer's show boxes were loaded with new Raw Grading Beckett cards freshly graded as Beckett had a table there selling magazines 2 for $ 5 . The grader was hidden behind a curtain doing raw grading for $ 20 late in the day. There is something I find a bit duplicit in the way the grading is handled by Beckett who has a table who is first grading cards at a discount for the table owners who ar both looking to selel their stuff and buy yours . Not to mention the fact that Beckett makes you take your card out of a screwdown holder (at Your risk.. I get it) and then get you to try to cram your card into a thin plastic cheap toploader (risking dinking of corner of card) and hand it to them where it then disappears behind a curtain

PS I will openly admit Im a cheap collector. I don't really need baseball cards so if I can find them cheap I will buy for sets. I much prefer to trade but the days where you could go to a show and you could trade with other show attendees as a thing of the past

I agree trading is a becoming harder, but is becoming hard on both ends. Too many customers who want full retail value for their cards and want to trade off of dealers already discounted price. Have this happen at least 3 or 4 times every show. Thats why I primarlily just buy outright and sell the same.
 
Jun 30, 2010
726
0
In my opinion, every dealer who doesnt show up with a little mix of everything is only hurting themselves.
@Kennesawsportscards , your issue is your dealers that are complaining not the discount box guys. People collect what they want regardless. Like it was already mentioned, the guys who are at the bargain tables are most likely not shopping for the cards the other guys have. Sure sometimes there is overlap but they're two different collectors. And if you have a lack of people spending money at the other guys tables its most likely because A. the declining interest in the hobby B. the seller (like mentioned before) has the same old cards every show. C. Are ridiciously priced.

Dont think one type of customer doesnt show up because some dealers dont have what theyre looking for. If sellers are complaining theyre not making money, they need to first look at themselves because the problem most likely lies with them.


If a collector wants a mid-high end card they can go on ebay most days of the week and buy those same cards well under what crazy show sellers are trying to move them at. On the flip side, those that like the low end cards for whatever reason, be it team sets, fill set needs, etc they prefer the shows because they dont have to pay $3 shipping on every card they buy.


And the shows need a certain element of low end stuff to meet a certain demand. Not against that at all. I guess the question might be more of a " Where have all the high dollar buyers gone to in Atlanta"
 

Dilferules

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2012
1,948
1,746
Auburn, WA
Rich Klein's response to this thread:

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/ramblings-quarter-boxes-dealers-promoters/


And the shows need a certain element of low end stuff to meet a certain demand. Not against that at all. I guess the question might be more of a " Where have all the high dollar buyers gone to in Atlanta"

I think buyers of higher-dollar cards either left the hobby or are now buying those cards on ebay. Consumers are smarter than dealers give them credit for...they've noticed that they can get those $50-100+ cards cheaper on ebay (with a much wider selection than any show), but they CAN'T get those $0.25 and $1 cards cheaper on ebay because of shipping, so the bargain bins remain popular. Do you really think that the bargain bins at local shows transformed $100 card buyers into $1 card buyers? Or that having some of those bins kept the high-end buyers away because they were so low-class? I really don't think that is the issue.

You mentioned dealers complaining about Atlanta with the National, well the last time it was held there was in 1999. This was right as the hobby was transitioning to the internet and dealers were still adjusting so there were a lot of guys who were losing money during that time.
 

togaman

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2008
1,298
26
Houston
I passed by a Beckett table at Tri-Star show in Houston late on the final day and after buying their outdated Fantasy Baseball magazine decided to do my first ever grading of a card. First they said it was $10 and when I came back it was then $20 for something called Raw Grade that took maybe 10 minutes as there was some guy doing grading hidden behind a curtain. The whole grading thing screams Con game to me as many dealers there had showcases full for Raw Graded cards they had submitted to Beckett for grading before the show was open to consumers at what I am assuming for some kind of discounted prices based on volume. I saw the same exact card I had raw graded in four or 3 dealer cases and the card I submitted was graded lower than every one of the dealers Clemente cards yet mine was in better condition (according to them..not me) than those they were selling.

Beckett rep told me if I mailed the card they would charge $ 18 shipping in the little brown box whether it was one card or twenty. The way Beckett handles the cards is very haphazard where they ask you to remove cards from protective screwdowns with a screwdriver they provide (liability I guess) and then turn around and ask you to stuff that same card in a thin plastic bendable toploader which can easily lead to bending or stress on the corners of the cards. That was just odd...

Matters not as Im not selling the card anyway but it sure seems subjective and highly suspect to me. Some of the dealer said they just cut the Raw Grading off if they dont like it and submit to PSA or another grader. So the whole process seems a bit of a scam to me to pump prices up on high dollar cards.
 
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Jun 30, 2010
726
0
Rich Klein's response to this thread:

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/ramblings-quarter-boxes-dealers-promoters/




I think buyers of higher-dollar cards either left the hobby or are now buying those cards on ebay. Consumers are smarter than dealers give them credit for...they've noticed that they can get those $50-100+ cards cheaper on ebay (with a much wider selection than any show), but they CAN'T get those $0.25 and $1 cards cheaper on ebay because of shipping, so the bargain bins remain popular. Do you really think that the bargain bins at local shows transformed $100 card buyers into $1 card buyers? Or that having some of those bins kept the high-end buyers away because they were so low-class? I really don't think that is the issue.

You mentioned dealers complaining about Atlanta with the National, well the last time it was held there was in 1999. This was right as the hobby was transitioning to the internet and dealers were still adjusting so there were a lot of guys who were losing money during that time.

Agreed that it is easier to get the cheaper cards at a show. I will give you that. I also never indicated that 100+ buyers are going for 25 cent cards, I inferred that we are training customers to get cheaper when we dump product at almost whatever cost to make a sale. Once that happens all heck breaks loose and other dealers end up dumping to make any kind of sale and customer ends up with upper hand which they definitely take advantage of instead of both parties having a win/win experience.

And yes, when a good portion of your dealers go to competing over 10/25/50/100 boxes then you attract that type of buyer to the show. I have NO problem with SOME of those bins, there have always been that, alot more so now and it does keep the higher dollar buyers away. As I said, I am talking Atlanta and the small shows here. May or may not refer to your area and this discussion does not refer to larger 100+ table shows. They always attract the high dollar buyers.

Now to clarify one more thing since you are the second person to inply something incorrect. It was not me who said anything about cheaper buyers being low class. Check the other replies and you will realize that. My stance is that I prefer to deal with the higher dollar buyers.... Buyers of cheap cards spend money just like everyone else. I am the last person to classify a person and always defend a person who works hard, is self sufficient, and acts with integrity. Bryan

I am well aware of the couple of Nationals that were held here. I have been part of this business for 25 years and was present at both Nationals. Contrary to what an organizer would say, the Atlanta Nationals were terrible. If you don't believe me have a little fun and, when you go to Houston, Chicago, New York or any large show, tell them you are from Atlanta and listen to their past experiences coming to this city, which as a whole, is one of the best in the country. Bryan
 

predatorkj

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
11,871
2
I think our resident Dilfer collector hit it on the head when he mentions that you can't get those bargain type cards online. Because you can't. I love rookies for instance. Yet, if I were to buy a random rookie like the Andrew Bogut topps I picked up this weekend for 10 cents, then I see it on ebay and find out there is no way I can get it for that. In fact I picked up a bunch of rookies and cards for sets that I can't even get at 10 cents online, completely ignoring shipping. For some reason, as a collector who doesn't sell and has to make his dollars count, I find myself having the feeling that shows are not the place to spend on the bigger cards, but rather take advantage of the cards I do want that are basically worth little anyways, for a price closer to their true value. The cheapest I get anything for my sets is like $1 and something on sportlots. Usually 18 cents for the card and maybe $1 to ship. Or those rookies I like to collect. Or the random inserts. They aren't worth much and yet I'd have to pay 3 to 4 times, in some cases 10 times, their actual value by buying them online.

IMO, I do see what is being said here, but these kinds of cards being dumped for cheap really shouldn't affect the big time buyers because honestly, they are being dumped cheap for a reason. Because they are cheap. I think there are still plenty of dealers out there with high dollar cards who will make a sale. But the biggest thing to remember is you are dealing with collectors. People who think like them. People who think to themselves, "To further my collection, I need to make every dollar count, and buy the right stuff at the right time in the right place for the right amount". These aren't the types of people buying up rookie prospect autos or 1/1 trout patches.

But hey, our small shows are so bad now, I wish they had bargain boxes. A lot of them are junk.
 

wallyscards

Member
Sep 13, 2009
131
0
South Dakota
I'm guilty of selling quarter cards at shows. I even offer quantity discounts of 25 for $5, 60 for $10 & 100 for $15. I also bring higher end cards, unopened wax and memorabilia.
Here's a funny story about how passionate some people can be about quarter cards. A few years ago there was a dealer that sold nothing but $1 cards that I nicknamed "Fanny Pack" because he was always wearing one. He hovered over everyone that came to his booth and really creeped out a lot of people. He would yell at people telling them to make sure they put the cards back where they should go. At a show one summer as I had just finished setting up and a small crowd began to gather around my booth, he walked over to my table, saw my prices and caused a big scene by cussing me out in front of 100+ people. To quote him, he said "This is f@cking bullsh@t!, you can't sell cards that f@cking cheap you motherf@cker, I'm getting you kicked out." I just smiled and asked "Dude, did you put your fanny pack on too tight this morning?" That really got him going and he stormed off all red-faced over to the promoter, all the while spouting expletives and demanded that I be removed from the show. I saw the promoter shake is head and overheard him say "have you ever heard of free enterprise? He can price his cards however he wants." He then warned Fanny Pack that he'd better watch his language or he would be kicked out and never let him set up again. The funny part was that his outburst actually helped my sales because when people heard him, they looked to see what was going on and saw my signs with the prices and came running over.
That entire weekend I had buyers constantly at my booth, while he would have the occasional trickle until they turned and saw my signs and said something like "WHOA! this guy has cards for a quarter" and put back the dollar cards they were going to buy from him and come over to me. He would huff and puff every time this happened and was warned a few more time by the promoter to watch his language. To pour salt in his wounds I made it a point to pull a big stack of bills out of my cash box and count them very slowly knowing that he was eyeballing me.
That weekend I had several dealers come over to me and offer me their support by saying that I bring in the crowds with my cheap cards. A few of them told me how he was trying to get all the dealers to band together and demand that the promoter make every dealer price their cards the same.
I haven't seen him in years and I assume he is out of the hobby at least as a dealer anyway, but I have to thank him for helping driving customers to me. To this day I can't set up at a show without another dealer or collector bringing up that incident and we all get a big chuckle over it. Sometimes they will ask me what the nickname was I had for him and with a big chuckle I respond "Fanny Pack!"
 

Casebusters

Active member
Aug 14, 2008
4,584
1
Viera, Florida
I used to do shows in Florida ( before my suv broke down and I had 8 tables of quarter cards. I was charged $160 for the tables. And they had signers around a 10 foot planter. Once the signers were gone, the promoter gave me the 2 tables, cause I could fill them too. ( so no empty tables are visible) The same show, a vintage dealer with 40 ft of showcases set up too. We would both have customers all day long, he had maybe 2000 cards, I had fifty 5,000 Ct boxes. He would sell 7-10k a weekend, and I would make about a grand per show. Some customers would even overlap. It was my best show every month.
 

wallyscards

Member
Sep 13, 2009
131
0
South Dakota
What shows do/did you set up at Wally? Used to only be one in Sioux Falls back when I lived there

There were a few. The flea market when it was at the downtown convention center and later when it moved to the Expo building at the fairgrounds. The downtown Holiday Inn, The Western Mall, Empire Mall and Empire East. Where did you set up at?
 

wallyscards

Member
Sep 13, 2009
131
0
South Dakota
Are there any regular shows in Sioux Falls anymore? I'm from Marshall but would drive down!


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There's hasn't been a regular show for a few years now. There is one tomorrow though. Here's a flyer for it.
We haven't had a promoter that is very good with getting the word out and getting people to show up so the dealers stop setting up.
I have a buddy that wants to promote a show and I'm helping him out and may even just do it myself if he falls through. I think we have a lot of collectors
in a pretty wide radius from Sioux Falls and a regular show would be great if the promoter knew what they were doing.
If you're not a member yet, you should join the facebook group I started for local collectors. It's small right now, but it's growing all the time. Here's a link https://www.facebook.com/groups/1706960366253214/?ref=br_tf&qsefr=1
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CollectorsCorner

Super Moderator
Feb 13, 2009
30,779
0
There were a few. The flea market when it was at the downtown convention center and later when it moved to the Expo building at the fairgrounds. The downtown Holiday Inn, The Western Mall, Empire Mall and Empire East. Where did you set up at?

I never set up but I went to the one at the fairgrounds back in the 2003-2006 range.
 

pander69

Member
Apr 6, 2010
64
0
Marshall, MN
There's hasn't been a regular show for a few years now. There is one tomorrow though. Here's a flyer for it.
We haven't had a promoter that is very good with getting the word out and getting people to show up so the dealers stop setting up.
I have a buddy that wants to promote a show and I'm helping him out and may even just do it myself if he falls through. I think we have a lot of collectors
in a pretty wide radius from Sioux Falls and a regular show would be great if the promoter knew what they were doing.
If you're not a member yet, you should join the facebook group I started for local collectors. It's small right now, but it's growing all the time. Here's a link https://www.facebook.com/groups/1706960366253214/?ref=br_tf&qsefr=1
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Cool, I won't be able to make tomorrow's show, but I sent a join request for the group. We have a decent group of collectors in southwest mn, so let me know when things are coming up and I'll spread the word here.


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