Jack Morris

jimfalbo21 · Jan 10, 2013

I'm sorry, but the more I think about it and look at the numbers, Jack Morris doesn't belong in the hall of fame..he was a durable, decent to good pitcher like Dennis Martinez. Guys like John Tudor, Dave Steib, Fernando Valenzuela, Dwight Gooden, Rick Reuschel, Ron Guidry, Orel Hershiser, Frank Viola, David Cone, Bret Saberhagen, Mark Langston, Sid Fernandez, Tommy John, Bob Welch, and Steve Rogers all had overlapping carreers with Morris. All are similar, if not better pitchers, and none are near the HOF. Sorry Jack, but I hope you are never enshrined in Cooperstown.

cgilmo · Jan 10, 2013

I spoke with him about it this summer. He does not think he's gonna get in.

jimfalbo21 · Jan 10, 2013

I don't have anything against him personally, and I wish him well...just not a HOF'er imo.

kerryfan5 · Jan 10, 2013

Agreed. Hall of very good players. He still has a great moment to look back on in the World Series.

ThoseBackPages · Jan 10, 2013

he wont get in, dont worry.

vwnut13 · Jan 10, 2013

How do you feel about Mike Mussina?

smapdi · Jan 11, 2013

And he also has similar numbers to guys who are already in the Hall. So it's down to perception, and perception seems to point to you being gratified.

jimfalbo21 · Jan 11, 2013

smapdi said:
And he also has similar numbers to guys who are already in the Hall. So it's down to perception, and perception seems to point to you being gratified.

He has a higher ERA than anyone in the HOF.

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craftysouthpaw · Jan 11, 2013

I still think he gets in via whatever incarnation of the Veteran's Committee is around down the road. Joe Posnanski wrote a great piece that showed how many other pitchers of his generation were better than him using any measure you could come up with and that if he goes in, there was no justification for keeping the other guys out. I don't think he belongs but it wouldn't bother me if he made it beyond the fact there are two guys on his own team (Trammell and Whitaker) that deserve consideration more than he does and probably won't sniff it.

He has several really strong accomplishments plus historic moments to point to that would be more compelling that the bodies of work of many of the guys already enshrined.

In my opinion, we aren't even having this conversation if Lonnie Smith didin't have his head up his %$# during that game 7.

smapdi · Jan 11, 2013

jimfalbo21 said:
He has a higher ERA than anyone in the HOF.

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Someone always mentions this and it's pretty meaningless. He also has more wins, a better win pct, WHIP, etc., than other members. 3000 hits doesn't get you in, 500 homers doesn't get you in, but 3.81 keeps you out? So again, it's perception.

jimfalbo21 · Jan 11, 2013

smapdi said:
Someone always mentions this and it's pretty meaningless. He also has more wins, a better win pct, WHIP, etc., than other members. 3000 hits doesn't get you in, 500 homers doesn't get you in, but 3.81 keeps you out? So again, it's perception.

His ERA was 3.90, anyhow his ERA+ was only 106, just slightly above the lg average for his career (100 being average, and 120 being considered an all star level performance)

Is he really better, or that much than Rick "Big Daddy" Reuschel?

Jack Morris:

254-186
3.90 ERA 106ERA+ (lg average is 100, 120 is considered an all star caliber performance)
1.296 WHIP
3824 INN
3x WS Champ
5x All-Star

Rick Reuschel

214-191
3.37 ERA 114 ERA+ (lg average is 100, 120 is considered an all star caliber performance)
1.275 WHIP
3548.1 INN
3x All-Star
2x GG

jimfalbo21 · Jan 11, 2013

vwnut13 said:
How do you feel about Mike Mussina?

I haven't 100% made up my mind, but Mussina was a significantly better pitcher than Jack Morris. And certainly more deserving of the HOF.

Leaf · Jan 11, 2013

He is the winningest pitcher of the 1980's

uniquebaseballcards · Jan 11, 2013

Leaf said:
He is the winningest pitcher of the 1980's

He was a workhorse who also gave up the most hits, home runs and earned runs, started the most games and pitched the most innings.

PeteD · Jan 12, 2013

uniquebaseballcards said:
He was a workhorse who also gave up the most hits, home runs and earned runs, started the most games and pitched the most innings.

Add the fact that he was a power pitcher, pitching in a band box that was Tiger Stadium. He through a no hitter. 3 WS rings. Lost half of a season in 1981 in which he was on pace for a 20 win season.

You just can't look at a guy's numbers and say, well he has the same numbers as so and so blah blah blah. The writers hated him, plain and simple...that's why he's not in. Other wise he deserves to be in, especially looking at some of the well below par players that made it 'cause they kissed the writer's @ss.

uniquebaseballcards · Jan 12, 2013

PeteD said:
Add the fact that he was a power pitcher, pitching in a band box that was Tiger Stadium. He through a no hitter. 3 WS rings. Lost half of a season in 1981 in which he was on pace for a 20 win season.

You just can't look at a guy's numbers and say, well he has the same numbers as so and so blah blah blah. The writers hated him, plain and simple...that's why he's not in. Other wise he deserves to be in, especially looking at some of the well below par players that made it 'cause they kissed the writer's @ss.

I'd definitely agree with this. I'd also say he should definitely get more credit for being a workhorse.

joey12508 · Jan 12, 2013

i like reading everyones take in these hof threads its fun. what bothers me though is a lot of people say yah or nay, but never seen the player play.

jimfalbo21 · Jan 12, 2013

PeteD said:
Add the fact that he was a power pitcher, pitching in a band box that was Tiger Stadium. He through a no hitter. 3 WS rings. Lost half of a season in 1981 in which he was on pace for a 20 win season.

You just can't look at a guy's numbers and say, well he has the same numbers as so and so blah blah blah. The writers hated him, plain and simple...that's why he's not in. Other wise he deserves to be in, especially looking at some of the well below par players that made it 'cause they kissed the writer's @ss.

He hasn't made it in yet, simply b/c he wasn't that great...ERA+ takes into consideration the ballpark factor, as do other advanced metrics and they do him no favors. He's not in simply b/c he wasn't that great. His durability was amazing, but his pitching abilities were not. And the writer's are over the hate, much to my chagrin...this is evidenced by the fact that he has received 2/3 of the HOF vote, despite having slightly above average stats.

jimfalbo21 · Jan 12, 2013

joey12508 said:
i like reading everyones take in these hof threads its fun. what bothers me though is a lot of people say yah or nay, but never seen the player play.

That's part of what makes baseball fun, we all debate all-time teams, and have our all-time best lists, but none of us have seen Babe Ruth, Walter Johnson etc. play

RustyGreerFan · Jan 13, 2013

joey12508 said:
i like reading everyones take in these hof threads its fun. what bothers me though is a lot of people say yah or nay, but never seen the player play.

As a kid growing up in the 80's, I figured he was the best pitcher in baseball based on things kids value like tv time, all-star games, post-season accomplishments, etc. I heard a lot about Nolan Ryan, but I rarely saw Ryan on TV and never in the playoffs. Once Jack's career was over, I was surprised that his numbers looked so boring. They are definitely not representative of what a great career he had. He ruled in the 84 World Series with two complete game victories, then in 91 had two wins the ALCS and two wins in the World Series including that ridiculous 10-inning shutout or whatever it was in Game 7.

If I were to visit the Hall of Fame I would want him there, but who cares what I think. I'm not a former player or a writer.

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