Group Breaks Issue. Good Read! Would love to hear opinions.

Hey all.

So over on our evil big stepsister BO Forums, someone brought up something that a breaker has been doing. An auction style Bowman Draft break filled and finished being paid for on the 11th. They are still not even close to done I believe. That is not quite the issue as many other breaks were done by the breaker in front of it.

It was finally its turn to be broken and has had several cases broken already (I believe its a 30 case break or more). HOWEVER, this is where the issue comes in. The breaker has been starting to break Chrome football in front of the Bowman Draft break while also breaking other on demand boxes and cases in front of it.

If I paid for a break BEFORE it even came out and now I'm seeing other breaks that were posted later leapfrogging it and being broken I WOULD BE FURIOUS.

What are your thoughts?


If what I said seems a bit confusing then check out the thread! Its a great read and I think the breakers response is awful. He says basically that its up to him in order to choose what he wants to break which IMO is completely un true. You break in order of what is paid for and filled. The BDDP auction break #2 should be COMPLETED before other breaks posted later are even started.

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/member-sales-trade-feedback/621487-group-breaks-issue.html

I bet all the re-sellers waiting for their merchandise are pissed. Glad I don't participate in these.

corockies said:

I bet all the re-sellers waiting for their merchandise are pissed. Glad I don't participate in these.

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Yeah! I mean I think they all understood they wouldn't get it immediately because he had something like a 25 case break, 36 case break, and multiple other things.

But to post breaks AFTER this one has already started and to break multiple cases of TC football as well as other boxes/cases for people is an AWFUL business practice.



Another side note. Someone calculated value on all the auction spots and it was something like 7000 in value was pulled but around 13000 dollars was paid for the auto spots.

Auctions are the biggest way to lose money IMO in this hobby UNLESS you are bidding on the chrome spots. They are almost always a steal especially the low end ones. Most prospects get 80-100 chrome some refractors and a few color sprinkled in here or there. 20 bucks for those is a steal IMO.

Yea, I couldn't understand the prices of the auto spots. The person would have to hit multiple color autos to even come close to breaking even.

Agreed, this is a crappy practice. Fortunately, it's out in the open and he will either have to change his approach or lose customers.

IMO for a particularly timely product, breakers should guarantee a ship date... people would definitely pay more to be among the first to own and potentially resell a new card. Subsequent breaks can be discounted appropriately.

Now that group breaking has grown so significantly, I expect we will see a "maturation" period for the business practices therein. More timely breaks (which means multiple simultaneous breakers and employees), better video footage, guaranteed ship dates, etc. The days of grainy Boomo videos will seem ancient.

bobthewondercat77 said:

Agreed, this is a crappy practice. Fortunately, it's out in the open and he will either have to change his approach or lose customers.

IMO for a particularly timely product, breakers should guarantee a ship date... people would definitely pay more to be among the first to own and potentially resell a new card. Subsequent breaks can be discounted appropriately.

Now that group breaking has grown so significantly, I expect we will see a "maturation" period for the business practices therein. More timely breaks (which means multiple simultaneous breakers and employees), better video footage, guaranteed ship dates, etc. The days of grainy Boomo videos will seem ancient.

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I agree. I'm all about people spending money however they want in this hobby.

However, to post a break and fill it before a product launches and get all payments in and then go and do multiple cases of other products and boxes BEFORE completing a break which filled weeks before is just horrendous. I can't believe that only one or two people are standing up to the breaker. I would be outraged.

I am in his TC football break and it doesn't bother me one way or the other. I'm not in this hobby to re-sell all the time, so the inherent delay of getting the cards from these breaks is fine. Also, he does mention he is on pace or better on the first player auction in terms of sorting and shipping, so no big deal. These are gigantic group breaks so time is patience. If someone bought into these breaks without patience, then let them rot. It's harsh, but reality. It's really not a good time to re-sell all the BDDP stuff anyways being off-season and all. Even if they don't get their cards till January it's still ahead of the top 100 prospect list and spring training.

AK11 said:

I am in his TC football break and it doesn't bother me one way or the other. I'm not in this hobby to re-sell all the time, so the inherent delay of getting the cards from these breaks is fine. Also, he does mention he is on pace or better on the first player auction in terms of sorting and shipping, so no big deal. These are gigantic group breaks so time is patience. If someone bought into these breaks without patience, then let them rot. It's harsh, but reality. It's really not a good time to re-sell all the BDDP stuff anyways being off-season and all. Even if they don't get their cards till January it's still ahead of the top 100 prospect list and spring training.

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This is not about reselling cards hit at all.

I agree with you comment of patience. You need patience for huge group breaks. Your statement about "It's really not a good time to re-sell all the BDDP stuff anyways being off-season and all. Even if they don't get their cards till January it's still ahead of the top 100 prospect list and spring training." is complete BS. Why would it be okay for me to bust a football product in the offseason and then say oh well the season doesn't start for another three months let me just sit on your cards until it gets closer while I do other things. Thats NOT what people in breaks pay for.

HERE IS WHAT THIS IS ABOUT:

He posted the auction break and filled it and received all payments before release date I believe. Then he proceeded to bust his other drafts/auctions/breaks that he had posted before it (which is the correct business practice). He got to this auction and began busting. This is where the problem comes in. He began to bust TC football WHICH FILLED AND WAS POSTED AFTER THE AUCTION instead of finishing BDDP (which is what needed to happen) and then move to his next break (which was TC football).

You do these in order. You do breaks you fill in order. However, jumping around and doing some of BDDP here and some of TC here and some of whatever else there is terrible.

It's not terrible. He wanted to break something different to give himself a mental break of seeing the same cards over and over. He's only busted 3 cases of TC so far, so it's not a huge detour.

He's also not sitting on your cards forever like you make it out to be. We're still back to patience in the end.

AK11 said:

It's not terrible. He wanted to break something different to give himself a mental break of seeing the same cards over and over. He's only busted 3 cases of TC so far, so it's not a huge detour.

He's also not sitting on your cards forever like you make it out to be. We're still back to patience in the end.

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There's multiple issues here.

It is terrible. I'm not sure if you have a bias since you are in the TC break.

Also you were the one that stated "It's really not a good time to re-sell all the BDDP stuff anyways being off-season and all. Even if they don't get their cards till January it's still ahead of the top 100 prospect list and spring training."
Its not up to you to say when its a good time to sell. Your saying its okay if they don't get their cards till January when most paid in mid November! Thats unacceptable for any business practice.

Why do you think its okay for him to break multiple breaks in order and then say "Alright I'm onto the last BDDP break....let me switch it up and bust a bunch of football and a bunch of on demand boxes in front of it even though they were posted and filled much later instead of finishing a break that I said I would finish."

He also posted his infamous "100 cases in a week thread." So he already put a self imposed deadline of sorts that he would do these in close to a week.

He's not done and its been over two weeks.

IMO I don't know how anyone can back him without being a homer after this showing. Broken deadlines, breaking products not in order, continually talking down to customers.

AK11 said:

It's not terrible. He wanted to break something different to give himself a mental break of seeing the same cards over and over. He's only busted 3 cases of TC so far, so it's not a huge detour.

He's also not sitting on your cards forever like you make it out to be. We're still back to patience in the end.

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Its not back to patience. I'm not in any of these breaks but I've had many issues with the way Houdini handles himself. He's busted the 3 cases of TC but he's busted numerous other on demand boxes/cases and other things in front of the break.

If you're offended by the way Houdini handles himself, you're taking these breaks too seriously. I don't take what a group breaker says that personally, so the whole thing doesn't bother me. His commentary during breaking is actually quite entertaining at times. How can I be bias at all when I do not even know him personally or partake in that many breaks anyways. For you not to have anything invested in any of the breaks and yet slam him also is hypocritical. Try breaking 100 plus cases on your own for a demanding audience and sort and ship within a timely manner. Very few people have the time and effort level to do what he is attempting so let it go.

I have no Horse in this race.

The TC break is No big deal to me, and I think most people here would see no problem with him breaking other products in between cases of Draft.

Heck, he probably just didn't realize the actual time involved with such a massive break...

Its a business at the end of the day. Ultimately his customers will decide if its cool or not.

AK11 said:

If you're offended by the way Houdini handles himself, you're taking these breaks too seriously. I don't take what a group breaker says that personally, so the whole thing doesn't bother me. His commentary during breaking is actually quite entertaining at times. How can I be bias at all when I do not even know him personally or partake in that many breaks anyways. For you not to have anything invested in any of the breaks and yet slam him also is hypocritical. Try breaking 100 plus cases on your own for a demanding audience and sort and ship within a timely manner. Very few people have the time and effort level to do what he is attempting so let it go.

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As jcmint says, his customers will decide.

OP, if you believe that this is a problem for customers (and I agree), then be the first to arrange a large group break with a guaranteed ship date that beats the competition. This WILL be a money-maker for the first person to do it right. Even to conservatively assume a 10% markup for receiving your cards first (the actual rates of markup for first singles sold on ebay are much higher), in a large break that would easily cover a low hourly wage for an employee to speed up the break and shipping.

I would do this myself if I had the time. Group breaks are a significant revenue source for breakers, and you are right that there is room for a better product all around from the breakers. I believe that customers would pay extra for the better product.

Andrew,

Have you ever thought about player drafts like they have on blowout? Or too much of a headache?

AK11 said:

If you're offended by the way Houdini handles himself, you're taking these breaks too seriously. I don't take what a group breaker says that personally, so the whole thing doesn't bother me. His commentary during breaking is actually quite entertaining at times. How can I be bias at all when I do not even know him personally or partake in that many breaks anyways. For you not to have anything invested in any of the breaks and yet slam him also is hypocritical. Try breaking 100 plus cases on your own for a demanding audience and sort and ship within a timely manner. Very few people have the time and effort level to do what he is attempting so let it go.

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I have been in plenty of his prior breaks just not these few so how is me slamming him hypocritical? Its not. I'm not saying 100 cases is not time consuming. it is. But to say all these things and then when someone has a problem to basically slap him and say I'll do whatever I want is not how I would want anyone to run a business.

I have no idea how you are okay with someone doing the following:
Filling Break A and receiving all payments and then beginning breaking. Then stopping the break you paid for and going to something else which he filled multiple weeks later as well as breaking plenty of other Draft boxes/cases for other people that aren't part of the break.

If he couldn't complete the task that he started he shouldn't have begun it.

I am just shocked that you are actually okay with him doing this. To each their own though.

Also He doesn't sort or ship anything. He has other people doing that. So yes it takes a long time but he shouldn't have begun the process if he couldn't finish 100 cases in right around a week like he stated he would at the beginning of this.

gt2590 said:

I have no Horse in this race.

The TC break is No big deal to me, and I think most people here would see no problem with him breaking other products in between cases of Draft.

Heck, he probably just didn't realize the actual time involved with such a massive break...

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You see no problem with him doing the following?
Filling Break A and receiving all payments and then beginning breaking. Then stopping the break you paid for and going to something else which he filled multiple weeks later as well as breaking plenty of other Draft boxes/cases for other people that aren't part of the break.

Really?

bobthewondercat77 said:

As jcmint says, his customers will decide.

OP, if you believe that this is a problem for customers (and I agree), then be the first to arrange a large group break with a guaranteed ship date that beats the competition. This WILL be a money-maker for the first person to do it right. Even to conservatively assume a 10% markup for receiving your cards first (the actual rates of markup for first singles sold on ebay are much higher), in a large break that would easily cover a low hourly wage for an employee to speed up the break and shipping.

I would do this myself if I had the time. Group breaks are a significant revenue source for breakers, and you are right that there is room for a better product all around from the breakers. I believe that customers would pay extra for the better product.

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I agree. I agree with virtually everything you said. I wish I had the time to break 100 cases of new product. I don't. Houdini is employed by Blowout and he is the one that decides that he wants to bust 100 cases. If he can't complete the task in the amount of time he laid out, he shouldn't have begun it. And when people start questioning what he is doing and saying its wrong he immediately tries to shoot them down by either attacking for finding other things they've done wrong in the past. Because he is such a large scale breaker and has many customers they typically come to his aid and attack the OP of whatever thread thus turning it on the OP.

To say he will have your cards within a certain amount of time (even though its not guaranteed) and then not do it and be multiple weeks late on them while busting other products that came out AFTER the one you are in is completely out of line.

Many of his customers have posted in that thread and have made it clear. I believe that he will lose multiple customers because of this as there are many other large breakers out there (Boomo, Dave, Nordy, Andrew, and many more).

No, no problem with it at all, especially from a Verified breaker with a good history too...

gt2590 said:

No, no problem with it at all, especially from a Verified breaker with a good history too...

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Well I guess we disagree. I expect breaks to happen in order of how they are paid for, listed etc.

I don't expect to pay for something that is ready for him to bust and then have multiple other breaks leap frog mine as well as multiple other cases and boxes.

And how people allow that to happen is unbelievable.

This is very similar to this scenario:

You walk into Taco Bell and order your food with five or six people behind you.

Then slowly but surely they all receive there food before you. Now the five or six people all have their food and finally yours comes out.

And your okay with that? Well if thats so more power to you but sorry if I bought something in front of you I expect to get it before you.

padremurph said:

Andrew,

Have you ever thought about player drafts like they have on blowout? Or too much of a headache?

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That would be awesome but in order to do a player draft you need to have usually at least 10 cases. I don't think the traffic here would be enough to allow that to happen.