Ichiro> Rose

BBCgalaxee · Jun 16, 2016

Comical aint it??

A lot of talk about how Ichiro is the all time hit king even though he doesn't have 3k hits in the mlb.

We all know that mlb doesn't combine any career stats outside of the league so adding his Japanese totals to his mlb is definitely wrong.

Yet the media and some folks think it's ok.

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Nate Colbert 17 · Jun 16, 2016

If the all time hit king had been a Yankee or Red Sox player, this wouldn't be an issue.

I have respect for what Ichiro has accomplished in his career, but the Japanese Leagues aren't exactly comparable to MLB.

DaClyde · Jun 16, 2016

MLB doesn't recognize Sadaharu Oh's HR record, so I don't get why the sports media (MLB included, as they ARE writing about it on MLB.com) is so desperate for a story that they need to fabricate this "record" for Ichiro. It mostly just seems to be another jab at Rose by MLB and the media. And Rose will always rise to the bait.

fordman · Jun 16, 2016

It's not the International Major League Baseball or international baseball Hall of Fame. It's MLB and the National Baseball Hall of Fame with international players. Some would argue that Toronto/Montreal would make it international but really, Toronto/Montreal are just barely across the border.

Ichiro achieved a personal milestone, not an MLB milestone. if MLB recognized the hit as a record breaker, the stands would have been packed with people. There were more empty seats at that game yesterday than at a Braves game in the 80's.

Fordman

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RStadlerASU22 · Jun 16, 2016

[MENTION=4035]DaClyde[/MENTION] stated exactly what I've been thinking every time it's brought up. The only difference is Oh didn't play at all in the MLB.

Ryan

death2redemptions · Jun 16, 2016

I believe they compare the Japanese League to Double-A baseball so should we start including the stats players accomplish in the minor leagues? This only works if we include Rose's minor league stats.

Mighty Bombjack · Jun 16, 2016

It is just another straw man thing for sports talk radio and website traffic. I haven't seen anyone argue that he holds any record, just statements of the kind like "Some people are saying..."

It is a cool story and Ichiro is a unique player in many ways, but Rose's hit record is not in jeopardy now or in the near future (probably ever).

death2redemptions · Jun 16, 2016

Mighty Bombjack said:
It is just another straw man thing for sports talk radio and website traffic. I haven't seen anyone argue that he holds any record, just statements of the kind like "Some people are saying..."

It is a cool story and Ichiro is a unique player in many ways, but Rose's hit record is not in jeopardy now or in the near future (probably ever).

I don't think it will ever be broken with the rise of strikeouts and decline of regular contact.

WCTYSON · Jun 16, 2016

death2redemptions said:
I don't think it will ever be broken with the rise of strikeouts and decline of regular contact.

I do. Baseball is slow to change but change and trends do occur. I agree with Fordman, it is a great personal milestone but not a MLB milestone.

smapdi · Jun 16, 2016

I'd have to think Japanese major league baseball is better than American AA, especially in the last 20+ years. But they're not directly measurable. Pete Rose has the most hits in American Major League Baseball history, period. And he had about 400 more in the minors, so even if you total up "professional" hits I think Pete's still ahead by a fair margin.

gt2590 · Jun 16, 2016

But I'd argue that Ichiro is the better Overall player...

death2redemptions · Jun 16, 2016

WCTYSON said:
I do. Baseball is slow to change but change and trends do occur. I agree with Fordman, it is a great personal milestone but not a MLB milestone.

There are some milestones which I believe will never be broken...like Cy Young's wins record. Not that I believe it to be a relevant stat.

Only way it'll be broken is if baseball goes to a 3 player rotation for a few decades.

death2redemptions · Jun 16, 2016

gt2590 said:
But I'd argue that Ichiro is the better Overall player...

I suppose an argument could be made for that. Better defensive player with much more speed.

Mighty Bombjack · Jun 16, 2016

death2redemptions said:
There are some milestones which I believe will never be broken...like Cy Young's wins record.

I think there's a better chance of his wins record being broken than his loss record!

KLARNOLD · Jun 16, 2016

In 2001, Tuffy Rhodes hit 55 HR in Japan and in 2013, Wladimir Balentien hit 60 HR in Japan. The most single season HRs Tuffy hit in MLB was 8 and Wladimir hit 7. Those two players are enough to show the difference between MLB & Japanese baseball.

Austin · Jun 16, 2016

KLARNOLD said:
In 2001, Tuffy Rhodes hit 55 HR in Japan and in 2013, Wladimir Balentien hit 60 HR in Japan. The most single season HRs Tuffy hit in MLB was 8 and Wladimir hit 7. Those two players are enough to show the difference between MLB & Japanese baseball.

Exactly what I was going to write.

Remember Matt Murton? He had more hits in one season in Japan than Ichiro ever did in Ichiro's 7 seasons in Japan.

American Leron Lee (who?) is Japan's all-time career batting average leader (.320) among players who played at least ten seasons. (1977-1987).

American Randy Bass (who?) has the season record for batting average, .389 in 1985, and hit 54 homers the previous season.

American Robert Rose (who?) had the second most rbi ever in a season, 155 in 1999.

Imagine if Harper, Pujols, Bautista, Cabrera, Davis, Ortiz or any great slugger played in Japan at their peak. They'd hit .400 with 70-80 homers a season.

On the flip side, it shows how incredible Ichiro is that he could be such a great hitter against MLB pitchers.

Nate Colbert 17 · Jun 16, 2016

gt2590 said:
But I'd argue that Ichiro is the better Overall player...

Pete was an All-Star at 2B, RF, LF, and 3B, but I agree, Ichiro was probably a better overall outfielder.

RStadlerASU22 · Jun 16, 2016

KLARNOLD said:
In 2001, Tuffy Rhodes hit 55 HR in Japan and in 2013, Wladimir Balentien hit 60 HR in Japan. The most single season HRs Tuffy hit in MLB was 8 and Wladimir hit 7. Those two players are enough to show the difference between MLB & Japanese baseball.

Basically this...

Ryan

predatorkj · Jun 16, 2016

Not saying they are totally comparable but I do remember Japan kicking our butt when team USA plays them.

Brewer Andy · Jun 16, 2016

Ichiro> Rose

I agree it's mostly people wanting to celebrate the "idea" of not giving a crap about the joke that Pete Rose has become. That said, Ichiro rules

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