WizardofOz1982
Well-known member
At second thought, I do believe Molina has a better shot at the HOF then I last mentioned after I had scrolled through his career stats because JVHaste's sarcastic remark regarding the historic lack of value at the catcher position rings true. While 50-60 WAR is generally when a career is considered HOF caliber, the catcher position is one where offense & longevity is at a premium and because of this there have been plenty of catchers who have reached the HOF with far less than 50 WAR. Among the 18 catchers in the HOF, only half of them have put together at least 50 WAR in their career & 6 of them have a lower career WAR than Molina (although 3 of them made it in mostly due to their career as a manager). 5 of those players made it to the HOF via the Veteran's Committee & the other catcher (Roy Campanella) was voted in.
I still believe if he does make it to the HOF, it'll take quiet a few years on the ballot before he does. His offense may not be up to ***** with the majority of players in the HOF but he's quite possibly one of the best defensive catchers to ever play the game.
All true but even adding in WAR's totality for Molina would still place his far behind a 10 year peak that Ivan had in his prime. Molina is a great catcher and I would not mind seeing him in the HOF but I could also understand if he does not make it in, unless he can defy aging and produce at a high level late in his career. Other posts bring up a good point as well. When you look at the number of players that have played MLB and the demands of a catcher, Molina producing at the level he does rightfully places his name in the discussion.
There are several experts (guys like Bill James, Tom Tango, Tom Ruane, and others) who think there is a lot of value unaccounted for in Yadi's (as well as other elite framing catchers) current fWAR total. I've read and heard Bill James toss around, in his words, a very conservative figure of 30 WAR. That puts him right in the conversation of greatest all time right now. I'm not sure I'd go that far since Bench had that level of defense plus a superior bat but Yadi is a whole lot closer to the top of the heap than the career leaderboards on Fangraphs would indicate.
The offensive environments are so different between Pudge and Yadi's careers that it is important to use league and park adjusted metrics like wRC+ for comparison purposes. Pudge's career wRC+ is 104. Yadi's is an even 100. Even at peak Pudge is just slightly better, 127 to 123. I have no issue with saying Pudge was the better offensive catcher because he had a longer peak but to say he was a better hitter at their respective peaks than Molina is specious.