thatsawinner
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- Jun 4, 2013
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He hasn't been retired long enough, so we'll see!!!
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Hall of Fame Criteria
- Thread starter Enfuego79
- Start date
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RogerMarisCollector61
Active member
- Jan 26, 2010
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Exactly. In my opinion he was the best defensive third baseman since Mike Schmidt, and he was one heck of a hitter too. Future HOFer hopefully.
What?
Scott Rolen may have been a top 3B-man of his generation but there's NO WAY he should be in the Hall. He's statistically inferior in juiced-ball era, only finished within the top-5 in MVP once, and never led the league in....well....absolutely anything.
And while he was a good fielder his Gold Gloves were scattered all over his career when he was actually healthy.
Does not make the Hall for me. And I don't think it's close. You can say that Ozzie is in and so should Rolen? I can say that Mattingly isn't in and neither should Rolen....works both ways.
Scott Rolen may have been a top 3B-man of his generation but there's NO WAY he should be in the Hall. He's statistically inferior in juiced-ball era, only finished within the top-5 in MVP once, and never led the league in....well....absolutely anything.
And while he was a good fielder his Gold Gloves were scattered all over his career when he was actually healthy.
Does not make the Hall for me. And I don't think it's close. You can say that Ozzie is in and so should Rolen? I can say that Mattingly isn't in and neither should Rolen....works both ways.
Ozzie is a diferent case. Ozzie was one of the best all time at his position.
RogerMarisCollector61
Active member
- Jan 26, 2010
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I'm going to do a brian kenny impersonation and say, "The evidence says otherwise."
Mattingly was a first baseman with a career 39.1 oWAR and a career -6.8 dWAR (total 42.2 WAR, and an average of 4.0 WAR /162 games played)
Scott Rolen was a third baseman with a career 52.2 oWAR and a career 20.6 dWAR(total 70.0 WAR and an average of 5.8 WAR/162 games played)
No disrespect to Mattingly but that's not even close. Being voted top 5 in an mvp race by idiots means nothing, receiving a gold glove by the opinions of idiots means nothing, and leading in a category means nothing. If you disagree please explain why any of those metrics you mentioned are relevant.
matfanofold
Active member
- Aug 10, 2008
- 7,645
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I'll reply for him....
Because regardless if you agree or not, popularity has great influence on the voting process and a players 'worth' as a member of the Hall of Fame. Gold Gloves, MVP votes, ect... all add to the lure of popularity, and lets be honest here....
With regards to popularity.
Rolen -----> (HERE)
Mattingly -------------------------------------------------------------> (HERE)
RogerMarisCollector61
Active member
- Jan 26, 2010
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I agree mattingly would win in a popular vote, but I thought we were debating our personal hall of fame criteria? I'm saying Scott Rolen is deserving I'm not saying he is going to get the votes.
Austin
Well-known member
It's such a shame that Rolen was hurt so much.
He had 9 seasons in which he missed at least 50 games, and he still wound up with 316 homers and 1,287 rbi.
If he were healthy, his combination of offense and defense would easily have made him a Hall of Famer.
He had 9 seasons in which he missed at least 50 games, and he still wound up with 316 homers and 1,287 rbi.
If he were healthy, his combination of offense and defense would easily have made him a Hall of Famer.
matfanofold
Active member
- Aug 10, 2008
- 7,645
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Sorry if I misunderstood....
I was just answering it based on my criteria, and the large swing Mattingly gets with the 'popular' vote would well overshadow any statistical shortcomings he had with respect to Rolen, again in my humble opinion.
RogerMarisCollector61
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- Jan 26, 2010
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No need to apologize man haha we're just talking baseball
Topnotchsy
Featured Contributor, The best players in history?
- Aug 7, 2008
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I'm a big stats guy but to me the HOF should have a significant subjective element. For example in my mind Andruw Jones should be a HOFer. When we talk about defensive centerfielders he was someone who was spoken about reverently for a decade. Along with his bat that gets him in for me.
There's things that we don't have the stats to measure.
There are also times the stats don't tell the story. In my mind a guy like Thome is not a HOFer for this reason. Huge power hitter but lost behind guys like Frank Thomas, Jeff Bagwell etc which in my mind makes it difficult to accept him as belonging there despite some impressive power numbers.
Hope that makes sense, would explain more if I was not on my phone typing this.
There's things that we don't have the stats to measure.
There are also times the stats don't tell the story. In my mind a guy like Thome is not a HOFer for this reason. Huge power hitter but lost behind guys like Frank Thomas, Jeff Bagwell etc which in my mind makes it difficult to accept him as belonging there despite some impressive power numbers.
Hope that makes sense, would explain more if I was not on my phone typing this.
RogerMarisCollector61
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- Jan 26, 2010
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I agree about Andruw Jones. He was the best centerfielder (in terms of fielding) in the history of baseball according to dWAR. And certainly those who watched him would agree he was amazing out in the field.
Interestingly Jones compares favorably with Griffey in that they had 11 years of dominance and then completely fell of the table. This shocked me when I saw this:
(According to fangraphs)
Jones from 1997-2007: 65.3 WAR
Griffey from 1990-2000: 68.45 WAR
And then they both disappeared.
