Controversial Hall of Fame ballots sent out tomorrrow

Mcgriff finished 7 hrs shy of 500

Almost 2 months of baseball was cancelled during the 94 strike, which happened to be during his best season. He would have broken the 500 mark had the season not ended in august.

I almost wish there was some sort of tier system, special designation or section of the hall of fame for the upper echelon. Just doesn't seem right to lump guys like Ruth, Cobb, Williams, Koufax, etc with the lower end or marginal hall of fame guys.

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BBCgalaxee said:

Mcgriff finished 7 hrs shy of 500

Almost 2 months of baseball was cancelled during the 94 strike, which happened to be during his best season. He would have broken the 500 mark had the season not ended in august.

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He also hit ten dingers in the post season!

BBCgalaxee said:

Mcgriff finished 7 hrs shy of 500

Almost 2 months of baseball was cancelled during the 94 strike, which happened to be during his best season. He would have broken the 500 mark had the season not ended in august.

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Coulda... woulda... shoulda....

Best regards,

Albert Belle

It always has cracked me up that guys like Biggio are locks and there isn't on suspicion about him. What about Rickey Henderson? What about Roberto Alomar? Hell, what about my favorite idol - Cal Ripken? What I'm saying is...they all played in the same era and if you haven't been officially linked to steroids (like Bagwell and Piazza), it's completely unfair to "assume" b/c, honestly, I can assume Biggio, Alomar, and Rickey used steroids too. Anyone can.

Bagwell should've been a 1st ballot HOF and so should Piazza.

On that note, just let them all in already. Who the frick cares anymore? They were all legends of the game and put up ridiculous numbers. What about the other 99% of steroid users that couldn't do what they did?

Bonds is going to get in. So is Clemens. Why deny Palmiero, Sosa, McGwire and the rest the inevitable?

Bonds and Clemens will be the first steroid users in, in my opinion. If those guys don't get in none of them will. They were far and away the best. Sadly without steroids they both would have made it which just makes it a shame.

PadresFan86 said:

McGriff has 493 homers and 1550 rbi's. Kingman has 442 homers and 1210 rbi's. Canseco is also an admitted PEDS user so that's why he won't go in. McGriff's lifetime batting average was about 50 points higher than Kingman's. McGriff seems to have been a far superior player than Kingman. McGriff also finish in the top 10 MVP voting 6 times, is a 5 time all star and has 3 silver slugger awards.

It's just funny that most people will say players are automatic locks if they hit 500 homers or 3,000 hits but McGriff can't get in because he's 7 homers short?

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7 homeruns short one time then turns into 12, then 12 to 15 and so on. I'm ok with being strict for 500.

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notjomommasclint said:

It's only controversial if those players are left out

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Juan Gonzalez is now off the ballot as of last year.Thats a joke! All players form the 80's through the early 2000's are suspect of using PED's. Some are in the hall of shame already. It is a complete joke.

markakis8 said:

It always has cracked me up that guys like Biggio are locks and there isn't on suspicion about him. What about Rickey Henderson? What about Roberto Alomar? Hell, what about my favorite idol - Cal Ripken? What I'm saying is...they all played in the same era and if you haven't been officially linked to steroids (like Bagwell and Piazza), it's completely unfair to "assume" b/c, honestly, I can assume Biggio, Alomar, and Rickey used steroids too. Anyone can.

Bagwell should've been a 1st ballot HOF and so should Piazza.

On that note, just let them all in already. Who the frick cares anymore? They were all legends of the game and put up ridiculous numbers. What about the other 99% of steroid users that couldn't do what they did?

Bonds is going to get in. So is Clemens. Why deny Palmiero, Sosa, McGwire and the rest the inevitable?

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Bonds and Clemens were HOfers before they used. Palmiero got caught the month he hit 3,000. This is the mindset of a lot of writers and some will make Bonds and Clemens suffer for awhile while some will eliminate everybody who played in the steroids era.

You have some writers 5 years ago that asked Selig to remove certain player's name from ballot consideration to make the voting easier but Selig didn't want too. He could have removed everybody named on the Mitchell report for a start.

SilverandBlack said:

Bonds and Clemens will be the first steroid users in, in my opinion. If those guys don't get in none of them will. They were far and away the best. Sadly without steroids they both would have made it which just makes it a shame.

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There are guys in the hall right now who were steroids users.

I am extremely curious to see if Jack Morris can sneak through on his last attempt...

elmalo said:

There are guys in the hall right now who were steroids users.

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so there are proven steroid users in the hall? Like who?

SilverandBlack said:

so there are proven steroid users in the hall? Like who?

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I would not be surprised at all if Rickey Henderson or Nolan Ryan were found to have used PEDs.

SilverandBlack said:

so there are proven steroid users in the hall? Like who?

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Proven, no. But you have to be pretty naive to think that there arent. And it was never proven that Clemens used them, so he should be first ballot, no? Hell, was it ever even "proven" that Bonds was juicing?

SilverandBlack said:

so there are proven steroid users in the hall? Like who?

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You would have to be completely naive to think that there are not any steroid users in the HOF. You would have to be completely naive to think that all future HOF representatives are 100% steroid free.

elmalo said:

Proven, no. But you have to be pretty naive to think that there arent. And it was never proven that Clemens used them, so he should be first ballot, no? Hell, was it ever even "proven" that Bonds was juicing?

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Flipping the discussion by saying almost everyone's guilty is just as useless as saying almost nobody is.

Maybe Henderson and Ryan cheated their entire careers in some other way that didn't involve PEDs.. you don't know that either. Same could be said for any HOFer with regard to any type of cheating.

Even if you were to say cheating (and PED use) isn't important, you're implying the hall is really a Hall of Cheaters. If this is the case, wouldn't the best cheaters be only those that DIDN'T get caught or suspected to have cheated? Bonds, Clemens, et al also fail at getting into the Hall of Cheaters because they weren't very good cheaters... in essence they'd lose twice.

Neither Henderson nor Ryan got caught doing something wrong, neither was suspected to have done anything wrong and neither had substantial offensive or pitching inconsistencies on their records to make one think they were doing something wrong. ... and that's all that really matters whether it was regard to PEDs or anything else.

Its time to move past steroids because its just like any other kind of cheating and its a useless discussion as it pertains to HOF. Besides if a HOFer were later proven to have done something wrong their HOF status could be revoked.

uniquebaseballcards said:

Its time to move past steroids because its just like any other kind of cheating and its a useless discussion as it pertains to HOF. Besides if a HOFer were later proven to have done something wrong their HOF status could be revoked.

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I actually agree here. Just move on. Players are going to continue to cheat. Melky and Bartolo are the most recent candidates to prove that. Money is the motivating factor for them. Just enshrine those that were important to the game when the played, steroids or not. Otherwise, it's an endless and worthless battle.

markakis8 said:

I actually agree here. Just move on. Players are going to continue to cheat. Melky and Bartolo are the most recent candidates to prove that. Money is the motivating factor for them. Just enshrine those that were important to the game when the played, steroids or not. Otherwise, it's an endless and worthless battle.

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This makes absolutely no sense unless you're saying PED use isn't cheating. At this point you'd be standing alone outside of MLB and MLBPA - never mind HOF voting criteria of contributions to the game, integrity and character as a result - so this point of view doesn't mean much of anything.

If you're saying PED use IS cheating then PED use has to be treated like any other form of cheating when it comes to HOF voting and is absolutely nothing special. Only taking this point of view will allow us to move on.

Players get in on their reputations, just ask Albert Belle.

Would be nice to get Morris in finally. Also would be nice if Lofton made it, but he might not have the #'s.

Just out of curiosity, all you guys who are against any steroid guys from getting in, how do you feel about all the hall of famers, including Aaron, who used amphetamines?

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