Welcome to our community

Be apart of something great, join today!

Thoughts on Andrew McCutchen

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

JEBJJA

Active member
Aug 11, 2008
2,345
17
South Jersey- Near Philly
If you say Jeter is black then I can say Jeter is white....Black dad...white mom. He's just a true professional who played the game right and has always been a winner on the most popular team in sports history in the biggest market.


TBP's hero Jeter is black and outsells almost everyone, minus the other black legend Griffey Jr. So there we have it. Literally the top-2 hobby elites of the last 25 years... black. What say you, TBP?
 

gmsieb

New member
Apr 19, 2011
1,265
0
You are correct, it's all racism. White people suck, everyone else is great.
My POS white a$$ is going to go throw out most of the cards in my collections now.

Thread/over
 

Austin

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
5,706
41
Dallas, Texas
McCutchen is one of my favorite players, but he's not really on a Hall of Fame pace.

At age 28 and after six seasons, he's hit 30 homers only once, never had 100 rbi, scored 100 runs only once, never had 200 hits, never had 40 doubles, stole 30 bases only once, never had 100 walks and has a .299 lifetime batting average.

Even if you only count his last three seasons, in which he was top 3 in MVP votes, he averaged about .315 with 25 homers, 85 rbi, 95 runs and 20 steals.

He's an excellent all-around player and does everything well, but he doesn't do anything truly great besides fielding.
McCutchen's like Grady Sizemore used to be.
Or maybe he'll play 22 seasons and compile Andre Dawson type numbers.
 

AnthonyCorona

Well-known member
Oct 6, 2014
9,600
68
Modesto, CA
I think race isn't much of a factor. If he played in So Cal like Trout he'd be a big name. Market is more important than race. Bonds use to have very expensive cards and he was n a major market
 

homerun28aa

Active member
Jun 8, 2011
19,072
8
Playing days, pack issued cards.

That's really your answer why vintage Mantle's are worth more because of race?
What about Clemente pack issued cards during his playing days compared to whites who played during his era?
What about Jackie Robinson's cards? They go for more than others who had better numbers than him.
There are very obvious factors that drive price and race isn't one of them.
 

homerun28aa

Active member
Jun 8, 2011
19,072
8
Why the time before that? Clearly we can all agree that racism was far more rampant and socially "accepted" (certainly not saying it's right) the further you go back in American history. But ignoring that the two most popular players in the baseball hobby for the last 25 years or so, while proclaiming rampant racism in the hobby, is pretty disingenuous.

This. Racism was present in the late 1800s early 1900s obviously until Robinson broke the color barrier and even beyond that for maybe a couple decades. Now we've come to a time where racism and baseball really don't go hand in hand at all and whoever claims that they do, I'd like for them to cite some proof of this. To say that in 2015 a Mantle RC is valued at what it is over Mays because Mantle is white and Mays is black is just a silly joke and insulting to collectors who buy those things.
 

WCTYSON

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2014
7,364
171
McCutchen is one of my favorite players, but he's not really on a Hall of Fame pace.

At age 28 and after six seasons, he's hit 30 homers only once, never had 100 rbi, scored 100 runs only once, never had 200 hits, never had 40 doubles, stole 30 bases only once, never had 100 walks and has a .299 lifetime batting average.

Even if you only count his last three seasons, in which he was top 3 in MVP votes, he averaged about .315 with 25 homers, 85 rbi, 95 runs and 20 steals.

He's an excellent all-around player and does everything well, but he doesn't do anything truly great besides fielding.
McCutchen's like Grady Sizemore used to be.
Or maybe he'll play 22 seasons and compile Andre Dawson type numbers.

Yes, he is on a HOF pace, if you consider his sample size is less than 6 full seasons. His offensive value is not gauged on one truly great stat, it is the culmination of doing a lot of things well. He is a top 5 offensive player. Comparing him to Dawson, you seem to be trying to slight his accomplishments. McCutchen thus far has had a better average, higher OBP, better walk rates, better run creation and much more. Last time I checked Dawson is a HOF'er and deserves to be so. He combination of skills are much more rare than a player who drives in 100 or hits 30 HR's.
 

homerun28aa

Active member
Jun 8, 2011
19,072
8
Yes, he is on a HOF pace, if you consider his sample size is less than 6 full seasons. His offensive value is not gauged on one truly great stat, it is the culmination of doing a lot of things well. He is a top 5 offensive player. Comparing him to Dawson, you seem to be trying to slight his accomplishments. McCutchen thus far has had a better average, higher OBP, better walk rates, better run creation and much more. Last time I checked Dawson is a HOF'er and deserves to be so. He combination of skills are much more rare than a player who drives in 100 or hits 30 HR's.

It's not clear cut one way or the other. I agree with Austin in that from just stats alone who knows if he's actually on pace or not he's certainly not there yet if you look at just the stats but so much changes when a player enters his mid 30s that we can't really make that call yet. But he's absolutely a great all around player, he's so versatile and like you said he has the overall game from avg and sb to also generating walks and hitting homers driving in runs etc. Something like that isn't on paper, but will bode extremely well for him in the future. All in all, I still think it's a little too soon to put him on HOF pace although he's had 3 remarkable seasons.
 

elmalo

New member
Feb 19, 2010
5,216
0
Totally agree that race is a factor. It's not the only factor of course, but it's in there. You see it most in the vintage market (Mantle as an iconic, popular player despite sharing NYC with the superior Mays, and the minority players that sell best are the ones that are regarded as barrier-breakers - Robinson, Clemente, Ichiro).

People choose what players to root for in very subjective, personal ways, and a lot of it (especially when you are a kid) is who reminds you of yourself so that you can model your game after them.

MLB has a whiter fanbase than NFL or NBA, and there is always extra interest in finding the new American Hero. You see this a lot in prospecting too, it's one of the reasons that Kris Bryant outsells Buxton (at his peak), AddRuss (similar level prospect in same org), etc. Another example is Trout at his peak is already outselling Pujols at his peak.

Again, to pre-empt some of the straw man attacks this is sure to beget, race is ONLY ONE factor in a complex web. Yes of course there are many popular minority players, yes of course there are many unpopular white players. Race is one factor among many, but it's silly to say it's not a factor at all.
I dont consider Mays superior to Mantle. Mantle was/is an american icon, hence, his cards sell for a lot more money.
 

elmalo

New member
Feb 19, 2010
5,216
0
Seems you answered your own question.
Because he was a little better defensively does not make him a superior player. Mantle edges out Mays offensively, Mays edges out Mantle defensively, not sure you can call either one superior.
 
Last edited:

gmsieb

New member
Apr 19, 2011
1,265
0
Because he was a little better defensively does not make him a superior player. Mantle edges out Mays offensively, Mays edges out Mantle defensively, not sure you can call either one superior.

Mays played in 2 extreme pitchers parks. Offense would have been off the charts playing in ny or mil. Plus he missed a prime year or so.
 

elmalo

New member
Feb 19, 2010
5,216
0
Mays played in 2 extreme pitchers parks. Offense would have been off the charts playing in ny or mil. Plus he missed a prime year or so.
And so would have DiMaggios numbers had he played in any other park in the league and not missed 3 years in his prime. And so would have Mantles if he wasnt constantly injured. That is not the point, you cannot go by what they may have done, you have to go by what they actually did.
 

gmsieb

New member
Apr 19, 2011
1,265
0
And so would have DiMaggios numbers had he played in any other park in the league and not missed 3 years in his prime. And so would have Mantles if he wasnt constantly injured. That is not the point, you cannot go by what they may have done, you have to go by what they actually did.


Ok, Lets go with what they actually did. Mays wins in hr, rbi, hits,runs, avg. The only one that is close is avg. So how do you have mantle as the better hitter?
 

Members online

Top