Today is the 25th Anniversary of Pete Rose's lifetime ban. Should he be reinstated?

r2d2 said:

And it will be very well deserved

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You're insane.

Bud is one of the worst things ever to happen to MLB.





And to an earlier post, if managers do not influence wins and losses, why are they even there?

r2d2 said:

And it will be very well deserved

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But seriously Pete and Bud are very similar.

Pete's positives are undeniably HOF worthy. So are Bud's.

Pete and Bud's lowlights are both extremely embarrassing.

I know a manager can do certain things to try and throw a game but they say baseball is the single largest individual team game... that means teams are really just a collection of individual players, all of which don't really count on each other much other than things like double plays, etc. Clearly they play together but unlike basketball and football where there is a ton of teammate interaction, baseball is an individual sport really inside teams.

That all said, I find it hard to believe a manager could truly throw entire games over and over and over again and not have it be obvious to the players or owners or something. Sorry, just doesn't make sense to me.

This all said, PEDs are definitely worse for the game IMO and could affect records and seasons and careers... a manager wagering $1,000 on his team to win or lose isn't going to change the course of the MLB season.

David Anthony said:

Ahh its ok. He supposedly never bet against the Reds when he was a manager. HOW BOUT IT!

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Even betting on your own team hurts the integrity of the game. He could manage differently when he had bets on (pushing pitchers harder etc) which would undermine the games he doesn't bet on.

I say put him in the year after he dies. No reason to give him the satisfaction of the honor but his career is notable enough that it should be in the museum (with context).

Wes said:

Even betting on your own team hurts the integrity of the game. He could manage differently when he had bets on (pushing pitchers harder etc) which would undermine the games he doesn't bet on.

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I fully expect Dusty Baker to receive lifetime banishment.

r2d2 said:

And it will be very well deserved

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Uh, no...

gt2590 said:

Uh, no...

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Uh, yes....there may be things you don't like but he has OVERWHELMINGLY been the greatest commissioner the game has had. Most people don't like to think about the politics and other factors involved in the commissioner's job. There is certainly some truth that the boss is ultimately responsible for that which occurs during his watch, but the positives outweigh the negatives

Since I diverted us to Selig...

I always hear about revenue and interleague play as two of the main positives...but what else? (Honest question)

Revenue is tied solely to television contracts...which are out of control in everything on television. Interleague play is fun and all...but played out and tired at this point.

Baseball is still a game enjoyed mostly by people 40 and over, so if we don't care about the future (non-monetary) growth of the game...he's done a great job.

Brewer Andy said:

Uh, yes....there may be things you don't like but he has OVERWHELMINGLY been the greatest commissioner the game has had.

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Uh, no...

Brewer Andy said:

the positives outweigh the negatives

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Barely. In fact, other than adding the first WC, which I like, what has he done that has been really well accepted? Maybe the partial revenue sharing, but the "big boy" owners would not agree. I liked the inter-league Idea at first, but it's been lessened by over-doing it...

200lbhockeyplayer said:

Giamatti was always known as being fair, hence the notion of applying for reinstatement. In all likelihood, Rose would have been reinstated by Giamatti had he not passed.

Selig has never been known as fair or rational. This hopefully is an issue of stubbornness that passes in January, and Manfred opens the door back up.

At 73, Rose isn't going to manage, coach or similar...but he's always been a great advocate of the game...something baseball isn't full of.

And for those mentioning how he never bet against his team to win...that appears to be the case...however the games he didn't bet could have been a clear sign of a loss. Regardless...gambling and sports go hand in hand. Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker are in the HOF...but no Jackson or Rose.

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I voted no.The fact that he lied for 15 years after the scandal is almost as pathetic as the gambling itself.Didn't he briefly manage some independant team as a gimmick or something this year?

Super Mario said:

You're insane.

Bud is one of the worst things ever to happen to MLB.

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No, I am not. It is just my opinion. Shared by many people around the sport also.

200lbhockeyplayer said:

Since I diverted us to Selig...

I always hear about revenue and interleague play as two of the main positives...but what else? (Honest question)

Revenue is tied solely to television contracts...which are out of control in everything on television. Interleague play is fun and all...but played out and tired at this point.

Baseball is still a game enjoyed mostly by people 40 and over, so if we don't care about the future (non-monetary) growth of the game...he's done a great job.

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Mmmm, well, let's see:
* Labor peace
* Attendance increase
* Expanded playoff
* Globalization
* New stadiums
* Competitive balance
* MLB Advanced Media
* PED testing

I guess I'm in the minority - I love interleague play.

I never really thought of Selig as being a HOF-worthy commish. I'm not sure what to think of that. All-Star game ending in a tie is a black mark, but a minor one, I suppose. All-Star game deciding home field in the WS? Big black mark.

Incoming commish needs to take a look at the epidemic of TJ surgeries the past couple of seasons. Not sure what he can do, but someone's gotta see what the heck is going on.

200lbhockeyplayer said:

Since I diverted us to Selig...

I always hear about revenue and interleague play as two of the main positives...but what else? (Honest question)

Revenue is tied solely to television contracts...which are out of control in everything on television. Interleague play is fun and all...but played out and tired at this point.

Baseball is still a game enjoyed mostly by people 40 and over, so if we don't care about the future (non-monetary) growth of the game...he's done a great job.

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I see your point, but alligning 3 divisions in each league and the Wild Card was a savvy change IMO.Didn't like the 2nd Wild Card though.

r2d2 gets it. I get the the disdain for the all-star game/home field decision, I'm not a fan either. But at least it was an attempt at something positive. You can't have a fit because one ended in a tie (it's just an exhibition) and also be upset that it decides something important (it's just supposed to be an exhibition!). It also wasn't a step backwards from the old alternating year system. It would be much easier for Bud's detractors to say why he has been horrible and then to point out that you are assuming he could have done better than the changes he has made. Have some been slower than we'd like? Absolutely. Is instant replay a perfect system from the get go? Certainly not. But I don't believe anyone else could have gotten it done in a better fashion. The commissioner does not and should not strike down with the hand of god his own will.

I understand people don't like him personally. He comes across as a weasel like little man and a doofus. But considering the commissioner's job and the sensitivity of baseball to change....sitting here and saying he is the worst thing that has happened to te game is naive at best. I've said before, history will be much kinder to Bud than any of us, I'm sure of that.

In fact, I still, almost 20 years later, can't believe that a team can be run by the daughter of the Commisioner of the League she is part of...

gt2590 said:

In fact, I still, almost 20 years later, can't believe that a team can be run by the daughter of the Commisioner of the League she is part of...

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Was there an exit strategy for the Selig's in place? Can you just hand over a Major League Baseball team over night? (Granted this took years) But what were the unscrupulous benefits received by those dominating Brewers teams of the late 90s? It was an odd situation but 20 years later are you still grabbing at some conspiracy theory? Didn't MLB own the Nationals for a few years? That had to be even worse I would think.

Side note: Wendy Selig sucked balls at her job. And I mean sucked.

r2d2 said:

No, I am not. It is just my opinion. Shared by many people around the sport also.



Mmmm, well, let's see:
* Labor peace
* Attendance increase
* Expanded playoff
* Globalization
* New stadiums
* Competitive balance
* MLB Advanced Media
* PED testing

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Labor peace? Of course, billions of increased revenues spread across the players tends to ease the peace.

While attendance has indeed increased, it's directly related to growth in the areas...and has actually leveled off

Adding a Wild Card is a solid...but necessary once the league broke into 3 divisions. Adding two wild cards is a dumb. A big, double dumb.

Globalization? Come now. Baseball is no more popular in any foreign country other than perhaps Israel. The World Baseball Classic is neat for every country other than the US and serves as little more than a major scouting showcase. The NBA and NFL have definitely globalized, but not baseball.

New stadiums...often tied to cash-strapped municipalities who fear losing the team due to strong-arm leverage.

Competitive balance...there was more balance decades ago rather than now. We think there's more competitive balance because a third of the teams make the playoffs or wild card.

MLB advanced media? MLB is so far out of the loop that their technology has little reach. It's the age old, "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a noise?"

PED testing...that all other doping agencies mock. I'm not even convinced that this testing policy is better than no testing policy. With this testing policy we have a false sense of function...but it doesn't actually work. Braun? ARod? Was that a result of testing or a disgruntled employee selling documents that the Feds were looking for? At the end of the day, the players can and will get whatever they want when it comes to PEDs.

We can all agree that there's been a lot of change under Bud's watch. Whether it has been not enough, too much, too fast, or too slow is where all will differ. But given the complexities of the game, the league, and the union....it's again a question of could someone else have done any better? That's not as easy a question as some seem to think IMO. There will always be more work to do

200lbhockeyplayer said:

Labor peace? Of course, billions of increased revenues spread across the players tends to ease the peace.

While attendance has indeed increased, it's directly related to growth in the areas...and has actually leveled off

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You forgot to mention that he was the "de facto" Commish for the only cancelled WS in history. Not entirely his fault, as the unrest had built up for years (when he was a powerful owner), but still under his "watch".

And I think attendance has gone down two straight years and there are several spots where good teams draw no fans. It is mostly out of his control, but so is revenue coming in so he must be judged by both IMO...