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Who gets into the HOF in 2016
- Thread starter Enfuego79
- Start date
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ChasHawk
New member
I can't stomach reading anymore than the first 100 posts but I get it.
I would have said Jr for sure but not 100%, doubt anyone ever gets 100%
I am not huge on anyone else but MP is cool with me.
Not a huge Bagwell fan and definitely don't see Bonds, Clemens, etc. making it but maybe I'm wrong.
As for the Rock, definitely not. Sorry. Not happening IMO.
This all said, let me mention Albert Belle. I think he should be accepted by the vets committee
Can you back up that "definitely not" on Raines?
zlpeterson
Member
Raines was a really good player for a really long time, but I don't think he deserves the hall either. What statistical category would make him deserving of the hall? He played what, 20 years? Still didn't get 3,000 hits, no MVP, below .300 career hitter, below 200 HRs.
I only see Hoffman making it next year.
I only see Hoffman making it next year.
ChasHawk
New member
He is the 2nd best base stealer and leadoff hitter in the history of the game.
The only thing hurting him is that he was overshadowed by Rickey for his entire career.
I think Pudge should get it in because he was one of the most feared catchers in his prime and for most of his career on defense and was a decent hitter for a catcher at the plate (IMHO, he ain't no Mike Pazza and Piazza was long overdue for the hall).
I'm still scratching my head over why Raines got so many votes - I recall him as a speedster and in a few all-star games, but my memory doesn't make him one of the best of his time in the OF position. I'm only having to guess he got so many votes because the clock is running out on getting former Expos elected to the HOF (and Vladdy is probably the only other serious contender for the HOF left for those who put on expos uniforms).
ChasHawk
New member
My only guess is the people scratching their heads about Raines never saw him play.
He got so many votes because he is one of the best players, leadoff hitters, and base stealers of all time.
And don't give me that, "he hung around a long time bull****", either.
Rickey Henderson played for 25 years.
He got so many votes because he is one of the best players, leadoff hitters, and base stealers of all time.
And don't give me that, "he hung around a long time bull****", either.
Rickey Henderson played for 25 years.
zlpeterson
Member
To say he is the 2nd best leadoff hitter of all time is a bit of a stretch, just off the top of my head I'd have to say Rickey, Pete Rose, Biggio, Ichiro and probably even Lou Brock are in front of Raines.
zlpeterson
Member
Also Kenny Lofton, let's not forget the 90s!
ChasHawk
New member
Your last sentence tells me all I need to know.
Here's a couple of fun tweets I saw as well...
Raines vs Brock
BA: Rock
OBP: Rock
SLG: Rock
OPS: Rock
TOB: Rock
HR: Rock
SB%: Rock
OPS+: Rock
wOBA: Rock
wRC+: Rock
WAR: Rock
HOF: Brock
Lou Brock would have to return to baseball and steal 762 consecutive bases without being caught to pass Tim Raines in SB efficiency.
zlpeterson
Member
Ok, so take Brock off the list and you still have 4-5 guys in front of Raines. Raines was a great player, no doubt. But not all great players are HOF worthy and I don't think there is one single stat line in Raines' career that is HOF worthy. To only point at stolen bases is a tough argument, based on that stat fact Billy Hamilton is well on his way to the Hall, right??
zlpeterson
Member
Everyone is always going to have their own opinions about who should and should not be in the HOF, I respect that Raines was a great player and you think he should be in and I'd prefer to leave it at that. No reason to get into a back and forth in an internet forum (these debates are better served over a cold beer at the local watering hole).
ChasHawk
New member
What kind of logic is that?
Raines was a better player than Brock in every way, and Brock is HOFer, but Raines isn't?
Pudge was a much better hitter than people give him credit for.
The argument can be made Jeter was better for far longer than Griffey. Griffey had 7 or 8 tremendous seasons, the rest of his career wasnt really all that spectacular. Jeter, in his career, really only had a couple of off years.
Jeter would be a first ballot hall of famer had he never played a single post season game.
Gwynn545
Well-known member
This could be one of the biggest overstatements (ridiculous statements) in the history of FCB... maybe lacking only behind the "Longoria is better than God" statement.
I think that's quite off base. Brock was a very good lead off hitter and base stealer who made it to the magical 3000 hit mark. Raines "only" had 2600 hits but by OBP (0.385 vs. 0.343) was a better leadoff hitter and was a better base stealer (808 SB with 85% success vs. 938 SB with 75% success). Adding in Raines' advantages in OPS+ (123 vs. 109) and WAR (69.1 vs. 45.2) along with no discernible defensive differences (both mediocre at best) and it's very reasonable to conclude Raines was the better overall player.
U L Washington Rookie
Active member
Perhaps Brock shouldn't be in and using him as a comparison isn't the greatest sort of logic itself.
U L Washington Rookie
Active member
It appears that you haven't taken an objective look at Jeter's career lately.
U L Washington Rookie
Active member
BTW, in my opinion, Raines is a reasonable borderline candidate. As the analysis of what makes a baseball player good evolves, it's apparent that the general consensus from when he played (more focused on hits and Avg) didn't appreciate Raines' skill set to the same degree as the popular stats today (more focused on OBP and avoiding outs). If he makes it, great. If he doesn't make it, I'm ok with it being tough to get in. I'm guessing he eventually gets in, at the latest, via the veteran's committee.
