Boomo's 50 Case hit tracker.

jtrinaldi said:

Yeah, that looks good. Boomo made it too damn confusing for people when they were going to bid. Logic says that you should have 1 slot for base and chrome, and 1 for the autos, not that split up nonsense.

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I can't imagine there were people who did not understand what they are buying but it hurts much more when your player got shut out on the cards you won but a different nice card of the player was hit (say bowman 1/1) so I seethe logic in setting things up that way.

Couldn't these acutions, and alot of box breaks for that matter that are not based on hits, be considered an illegal lottery? I mean you are basically paying for a chance at a prize.

P_Manning 18 said:

Since I was shut out... Im considering a chargeback.

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Are you being serious? That would be hobby-image suicide.

EDIT: You were probably joking....I hope.

edit...deleted because I basically wrote what BCA said

I went for the base chrome (to gold) lots since I knew I would get something out of those. I won three of them. Haar, Vaughn, Waldrip. If I wanted to I should be able to flip those when I get them to get my money back.

BowmanChromeAddict said:

Without eBay there would be no selling any of these slots for anywhere near these prices. Not to mention that to date, there has been no real competitive auction websites that would allow this sort of exposure and this sort of bidding to take place. How would he have known what prices to charge for any one slot? It wouldn't work anywhere else. I hope he doesn't get burned by anyone.

I do recall him saying that those that got really skunked he'd look to do something for them, but I guess that is up to him. Unless he can ship them something, I don't think he has a leg to stand on. Between no confirmation of delivery and the game of luck rule, Boomo is in a vulnerable position.

The only reason I even mentioned the box of Jumbo is that he'd have something of value to pass on to people, they didn't cost him anywhere near the current resale value, and he'd have something to ship. I'm not saying he has to do that for me to avoid filing, I'm not filing anything. But he made money on the break, got a ton of exposure, and mostly positive, if he wanted to make good for some folks that got really skunked like the Zunino Gold & Up Autos, etc, throw them a few boxes. If I were in his shoes, that's what I would be considering...not that he should have to, we all knew the risk that we were taking, but I'm thinking from a CYA perspective.

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Outside of feebay, these kinds of auctions are (probably) not vulnerable to chargebacks. I'm talking from a risk management perspective. Anyone of these buyers, even the ones who may have gotten their money's worth, can file a chargeback. feebay flatly prohibits box break auctions. I don't think any buyer would even have to say "i was confused". In regular law, illegal contracts are flatly non-enforceable. feebay presumably takes a similar "mental-state neutral" position. Bommo would have to describe number, condition and quality of the cards. He didn't. Hence, anyone can get their money back.

Now, if I am a seller of such an auction, this is a huge risk. Literally relying on the goodness of people I have never met in order to ensure that I am not left holding the $30,000 bag. Certainly his profits would have been smaller if he had, say, listed a flat fee for the lesser slots and had individual threads here or on BO for the juicier ones, opening them for a set period of days for registered members to make offers. There to, he could have made sure that they were members in good standing. Obviously, less of a profit to be made, but a far more likely one. There, any disgruntled buyer would have to go through the real world legal system as opposed to the buyer friendly feebay system.

To me, I'd prefer making $60 with a 99% chance I'd get to keep something than $100 with a 50% chance I get to keep it. I understand fully that the highest prices are to be had on feebay (I stated as much in my initial post). But to me, the risk of chargebacks is too great. Say in that superfractor lot, he has to give the buyer his money back. Sure, he gets the card back, but he's still out most of his presumed profit. As I understand it, if he gets 1/3 of his buyers charging back, he loses money on this endeavor.

Just too risky of an endeavor for me, and I think the results bear out as to why it is.

Hope it works out for him, though.

js0000001 said:

I went for the base chrome (to gold) lots since I knew I would get something out of those. I won three of them. Haar, Vaughn, Waldrip. If I wanted to I should be able to flip those when I get them to get my money back.

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same here. those seemed to be the "safest" gamble of all the lots. I had two - Marin and Kline of the Orioles. At the very least you get a crap ton of chrome. But I'm pretty sure I'll have some refractors and blue refractors in there as well.

People knew the risk going in...filing a chargeback now is like playing cards with your dad and losing and expecting him to give you your money back. Suck it up as a bad night at the boat and carry-on.

Well sadly the way eBay is set up buyer wins this case 99.9% of the time by saying they didn't get what's promised. Now eBay checks the auction and since its against their rules he loses that .1 chance he had. It literally does nothing to the buyer and screws boomos to high heavens if enough do it.

There is absolutely nothing stopping people from filing change backs, and I would hope he did something more to over his ass, cause you can say anything you want in your auction. But in the end it means nothing if not ebay and paypals rules.

what happens over the next few days will dictate what happens with this type of break in the future. If you are an upstanding person and knew the risk you were taking, this will all be fine but we know that is highly unlikely.

its a shame really because this type of break could be something that adds to the hobby.

There's always something to ship. He can ship a receipt with D/C.Asking for a $170 box is quite a bit to ask for.Certainly, you wouldn't be offering boxes back if you made out like a bandit.

BowmanChromeAddict said:

Without eBay there would be no selling any of these slots for anywhere near these prices. Not to mention that to date, there has been no real competitive auction websites that would allow this sort of exposure and this sort of bidding to take place. How would he have known what prices to charge for any one slot? It wouldn't work anywhere else. I hope he doesn't get burned by anyone. I do recall him saying that those that got really skunked he'd look to do something for them, but I guess that is up to him. Unless he can ship them something, I don't think he has a leg to stand on. Between no confirmation of delivery and the game of luck rule, Boomo is in a vulnerable position. The only reason I even mentioned the box of Jumbo is that he'd have something of value to pass on to people, they didn't cost him anywhere near the current resale value, and he'd have something to ship. I'm not saying he has to do that for me to avoid filing, I'm not filing anything. But he made money on the break, got a ton of exposure, and mostly positive, if he wanted to make good for some folks that got really skunked like the Zunino Gold & Up Autos, etc, throw them a few boxes. If I were in his shoes, that's what I would be considering...not that he should have to, we all knew the risk that we were taking, but I'm thinking from a CYA perspective.

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I hope all turns out well for him with this, but we all know ebay is littered with scam artists and opportunist who will indeed chargeback anything they feel is less than an equal ROI....

Without getting too much into it, there are definitely ways Matt can protect himself that aren't exactly ethical (or legal by eBay standards), but if somebody is going to pull some XXXX, all is fair.

His auctions weren't confusing at all. It was laid out pretty bluntly what you could get if you won an auction. Now whether or not his listings, especially the ones that didn't get a single hit, will stand up to ebay/paypal claims in another question. I don't necessarily think they will, which could prove to be an issue. I'd say most of the people who spent big $ on his lots knew what they were getting into, but that doesn't mean they won't take advantage of the situation

As I recall, these auctions ran for several days each (5 or 7). I'd have to imagine eBay had ample time to pull them if they were objectionable.

Jaypers said:

As I recall, these auctions ran for several days each (5 or 7). I'd have to imagine eBay had ample time to pull them if they were objectionable.

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Agreed as i'm sure at least a few people reported them...

It's going to be interesting to see what happens, because plenty of buyers and sellers know "how to work the system"....

SydBarrett said:

Without getting too much into it, there are definitely ways Matt can protect himself that aren't exactly ethical (or legal by eBay standards), but if somebody is going to pull some XXXX, all is fair.

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SydBarrett said:

Without getting too much into it, there are definitely ways Matt can protect himself that aren't exactly ethical (or legal by eBay standards), but if somebody is going to pull some XXXX, all is fair.

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You're right. It's always a great idea to mitigate a loss of profits by engaging in other behavior that can (will) have negative consequences. Eesh.

I'm curious. There has been a lot of "the buyers knew what they were getting into, so they should deal with their bad luck", but no "Bommo knew what he was getting into by listing these in violation of feebay terms, so he should stick with any bad luck". Is that because he is a member, or just some form of caveat emptor?

To my eyes, both parties took risks, yet only the buyer should face the downside? Or was bommo's risk at the sale end, not the result end?

I stayed far far away from these auctions as I'm pretty wary of box breaks, so I have no axe to grind here. I sell on ebbay infrequently, but when I do, I am very clear about not accepting returns, not making guarantees on condition, and inviting any interested buyers to message me with questions. I do this because I want to cover my butt as much as possible so that negs/returns don't happen. Do I leave some money on the table by not calling my cards "mint, perfect, pack fresh, etc"? Sure. But the extent to which I am a business-oriented person, I am on the very very low risk spectrum. I'm not calling into question the judgment or good intentions of the seller or the buyers, but this whole ordeal might just be proof as to why these sorts of auctions are prohibited.

Jaypers said:

As I recall, these auctions ran for several days each (5 or 7). I'd have to imagine eBay had ample time to pull them if they were objectionable.

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eBay would lose a massive amount of seller fees if it pulled the auctions. That probably has a part in it.

A little off topic, what's the most cases anyone's ripped of a single product. 100+?