Creating the perfect cut autograph card

It is a little sad that the card that really highlighted this for me was actually from the first cut autograph set ever made, meaning it is not that the companies have not figured out how to make great cut autograph cards, it is that they don't care. (Not that that comes as a surprise, but I firmly believe that if a company really put effort into a cut autograph set, the cards would sell for a nice premium.

How to make a perfect cut autograph card:

1) The autograph itself is a good quality autograph
2) The paper that it is on does not have any other writing on it
3) The paper that the cut autograph is on takes up the entire window that is cut out of the card)
4) The paper it is on does not have any creases on it

2,3 and 4 allow the cut to be viewed as an integrated part of the card without having to view it as something separate. When any of these are not the case, this cannot be done both psychologically and practically (for example, if the paper is wrinkled or has other writing on it and it was viewed as part of the card the card would have to get a really low score if graded.)

5) The design of the card should match with the color of the paper
6) The back of the card should highlight the authenticity, telling either the origin of the cut or minimally that it was certified by a leading authentication company
7) In the case where the autograph has additional attributes, make sure it is highlighted on the card (for example a recent image of a Pete Rose cut sig was initially put down because of its sloppiness, which could easily have been avoided since Rose has a million nice looking signatures out there. A member indicated that the cut was intentionally selected because it was from the era of his playing days. That definitely makes the card more interesting... but only if you understand that.)


The card that brought it all together in my book is the one below and I can admit to not having appreciated some of the details until I received this card. Looking at it in hand it could easily be a design made for modern cards where the players signed the card afterwards. The paper that the signature is on matches the colors of the card, and has no creases or issues. The signature is also perfectly centered. Having owned many cuts over the years, only a couple have come anywhere near close to the way this card is integrated, and I definitely can say I paid a premium for it (also because of it's place as being part of the first cut sig set.)

One interesting note, the insert set was called "Legendary Cuts" which obviously became the name of one of UD's most successful sets starting in 2001.

I agree on all counts. Though there are 2 that i believe would be difficult without spending a ton of time and money on searching and integration to the card to make them look perfect.
2 and 5, Mostly the color. Are some ugly and detract from the card? Yes, but along with multiple sigs or writing in the cutout windows, it's the nature of the beast. Especially with older players that these are made of.

I'm biased to UD cuts as I believe they made them about as perfect as could be through 2007. Yes there are some lame ducks but if your patient and willing to spend a premium in some cases you can find the perfect cut. This is my favorite so far. Nothing like your Ott though

More here
http://www.freedomcardboard.com/forum/album.php?albumid=460

Both posted cards are about as much of a perfect cut as can be. The amount of junk ones put out are sad. There is no excuse. To make a card just to fill numbers isn't justifiable. It's such a turn off to see cuts that don't fit, creased, and basic junk. It's one of those things I wish I could change about the companies.

Ryan

Not that I am a cut auto connoisseur by any means, but I think that when the paper has other writing on it, whether it be from a cut check, or a "best wishes" from the bottom of a letter or something, I feel that it can add to the interest of a piece. Not that it was just someone signed an index card and that was used for a cut auto...of course, with the caveat that is was actually done well and not just cobbled together. IMHO

RStadlerASU22 said:

Both posted cards are about as much of a perfect cut as can be. The amount of junk ones put out are sad. There is no excuse. To make a card just to fill numbers isn't justifiable. It's such a turn off to see cuts that don't fit, creased, and basic junk. It's one of those things I wish I could change about the companies.

Ryan

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This exactly. They don't take the time to present the signature well at all. It's layer on the card so you can read it and BAM, it's done. If you look at 04 legendary cuts or even 03 I believe some cuts of the same player have borders around the cut, others don't. Only one reason I can see for that. Others have a border and still don't fit quite right but it's the material at hand. They simply don't care anymore

I agree with you completely. Which is one of the reasons I don't buy many. However I proably would if they all looked as good as your ott and Gehrig in your avatar. But without a doubt your ott is flawless! I will show you another card that has a poorer ott signature along with a really bad Ted Williams signature. The Williams signature is cut so poorly you can't even see it all.

Well, some of the tidbits you mention could be really costly. I'm by no means taking up for a company. But when they sit down to design the set, I'm sure a budget is set. So right there, two things get sticky: quality of cut and production of cards. Not all cuts are equal in size. If they are to produce a set that looks pretty consistent, they'd have to find all cuts that are the same size and color(paper at least). Or risk having to make unique designs for each card. Plus, they may be given a budget for all cuts. A total they cannot exceed. So chances are, they've got their hands tied.

There are a lot of sets that could be done much better or with more thought. IMO with cuts, you can't get too choosy when creating the cards. All this extra money the cards will be worth or how they do on the secondary market does not help the company. The only way they get any gain from it is hopefully you'll buy more product in the future. But that does not translate into tangible gains in the immediate sense.

predatorkj said:

Well, some of the tidbits you mention could be really costly. I'm by no means taking up for a company. But when they sit down to design the set, I'm sure a budget is set. So right there, two things get sticky: quality of cut and production of cards. Not all cuts are equal in size. If they are to produce a set that looks pretty consistent, they'd have to find all cuts that are the same size and color(paper at least). Or risk having to make unique designs for each card. Plus, they may be given a budget for all cuts. A total they cannot exceed. So chances are, they've got their hands tied.

There are a lot of sets that could be done much better or with more thought. IMO with cuts, you can't get too choosy when creating the cards. All this extra money the cards will be worth or how they do on the secondary market does not help the company. The only way they get any gain from it is hopefully you'll buy more product in the future. But that does not translate into tangible gains in the immediate sense.

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When you are piecing together 2 pieces of "material" (meaning a card and a cut), they should put the costs into it looking right. A badly designed insert is one thing. A cut requires the time / $ to make it right IMO.

Ryan

I was looking at some auto's on EBAY and I came across this one.. I would commend Topps for getting this one right for once..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281937893044

View attachment 59856

Pinbreaker said:

I was looking at some auto's on EBAY and I came across this one.. I would commend Topps for getting this one right for once..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281937893044

View attachment 59856

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Def well done !


Ryan

Unless it's from the first hof class or foxx, I have yet to see a cut topps puts much thought or time into.
This ruth a gehrig and a foxx from five star are really impressive

michaelstepper said:

I agree on all counts. Though there are 2 that i believe would be difficult without spending a ton of time and money on searching and integration to the card to make them look perfect.
2 and 5, Mostly the color. Are some ugly and detract from the card? Yes, but along with multiple sigs or writing in the cutout windows, it's the nature of the beast. Especially with older players that these are made of.

I'm biased to UD cuts as I believe they made them about as perfect as could be through 2007. Yes there are some lame ducks but if your patient and willing to spend a premium in some cases you can find the perfect cut. This is my favorite so far. Nothing like your Ott though

More here
http://www.freedomcardboard.com/forum/album.php?albumid=460

Click to expand...

Michael, the card you post is a prime example of the way that it is not so difficult to work the colors. The cut of the Grove is not the same color as the rest of the card, but the contrast works really nice, and it makes it a really nice looking card.

I do think that the companies could find a way to do this if they so chose and it would not be all that difficult. One of the relatively easy ways to buy autographs in volume is to buy old autograph books. The pages in those books are all the same color so you can have a set where every cut has the same color.

predatorkj said:

Well, some of the tidbits you mention could be really costly. I'm by no means taking up for a company. But when they sit down to design the set, I'm sure a budget is set. So right there, two things get sticky: quality of cut and production of cards. Not all cuts are equal in size. If they are to produce a set that looks pretty consistent, they'd have to find all cuts that are the same size and color(paper at least). Or risk having to make unique designs for each card. Plus, they may be given a budget for all cuts. A total they cannot exceed. So chances are, they've got their hands tied.

There are a lot of sets that could be done much better or with more thought. IMO with cuts, you can't get too choosy when creating the cards. All this extra money the cards will be worth or how they do on the secondary market does not help the company. The only way they get any gain from it is hopefully you'll buy more product in the future. But that does not translate into tangible gains in the immediate sense.

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I don't agree with the bolded statement. I think if a company made a cut auto set that clearly put time and effort into the design, (and that was highlighted) it would definitely attract buyers.

Here's a set I have been working on that look pretty good as well, but since there is a Ruth /1 and a Maris /1, I doubt I will finish the set..

Pinbreaker said:

Here's a set I have been working on that look pretty good as well, but since there is a Ruth /1 and a Maris /1, I doubt I will finish the set..

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Even Killebrew is telling you good luck completing that set

Although the 7 items are great on paper (pun intended) and easier to do on a custom basis, there are far too many moving parts to consider when building an entire cut set to make all 7 realistic.

1. We know that the vast majority of players sign in different sizes, making universal window sizes unrealistic. However, for the cost of the production, universal windows are almost a must.

2. With cuts being on different stock, different inks, etc...the look and feel of the set may not match up perfectly with all cuts.

3. Everyone would like a perfectly clean index card to cut up when making a card, but those also happen to be the most expensive cuts to purchase. Increasing the cost of the cut on the back end will make zero impact on the perceived value of the resulting 1/1 cut card and only drive up product cost...therefore it's not money well spent.

4. Third-party authenticity of the cut should be needed in cases that the company itself is not willing/comfortable to stand by it.

All great ideas, but ideas that would require more customization and production time than companies are willing to do. In turn, more cost to the consumer when the market would show no additional return.

200lbhockeyplayer said:

Although the 7 items are great on paper (pun intended) and easier to do on a custom basis, there are far too many moving parts to consider when building an entire cut set to make all 7 realistic.

1. We know that the vast majority of players sign in different sizes, making universal window sizes unrealistic. However, for the cost of the production, universal windows are almost a must.

2. With cuts being on different stock, different inks, etc...the look and feel of the set may not match up perfectly with all cuts.

3. Everyone would like a perfectly clean index card to cut up when making a card, but those also happen to be the most expensive cuts to purchase. Increasing the cost of the cut on the back end will make zero impact on the perceived value of the resulting 1/1 cut card and only drive up product cost...therefore it's not money well spent.

4. Third-party authenticity of the cut should be needed in cases that the company itself is not willing/comfortable to stand by it.

All great ideas, but ideas that would require more customization and production time than companies are willing to do. In turn, more cost to the consumer when the market would show no additional return.

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Agree with almost everything you said but not the bold. I think when sets like national treasures are looking to stand out as the premium something like the above could definitely help with that. Jmo

Topnotchsy said:

Agree with almost everything you said but not the bold. I think when sets like national treasures are looking to stand out as the premium something like the above could definitely help with that. Jmo

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It's tough to find lockdown "proof" for discussion, but take someone like Babe Ruth. It's not hard to find a Babe Ruth signature in the $3000 range, however if you want a clean index card like you're describing to make the "perfect" cut card you then jump into the $5000 range. Do you truly believe that the clean cut, dropped into a card, would generate +$2000 in auction when compared to the standard Ruth scrap signatures?

Could it generate $500 more? Perhaps, but it makes little business sense to spend an additional $2000 only to chop up a prime index card for a single player instead of taking that $2000 and buying additional cuts.

I mean, there are Bobby Thomson check supply auctions to be won.

200lbhockeyplayer said:

It's tough to find lockdown "proof" for discussion, but take someone like Babe Ruth. It's not hard to find a Babe Ruth signature in the $3000 range, however if you want a clean index card like you're describing to make the "perfect" cut card you then jump into the $5000 range. Do you truly believe that the clean cut, dropped into a card, would generate +$2000 in auction when compared to the standard Ruth scrap signatures?

Could it generate $500 more? Perhaps, but it makes little business sense to spend an additional $2000 only to chop up a prime index card for a single player instead of taking that $2000 and buying additional cuts.

I mean, there are Bobby Thomson check supply auctions to be won.

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I do think we see clear examples where nice cuts sell for significantly higher, but I believe it is more than that. If there was an insert set (call it "Premium Penmanship" or something along those lines) and one of the selling points was the aesthetics of the cuts, I believe the product would sell a lot better (which is really what matters to the companies.)

I know we have been talking about the way to make the perfect cut, but one of the things that isn't excusable IMO is the amount of horrible cuts. Not those that are just eh and suffice as that's what was available etc, but the ones that just shouldn't have been produced, ever. I'd have to look up ones that fit this example, but we've all seen them. Cleaning up those messes would so as
much as perfecting the non-perfect ones IMO.

Ryan

So it's the belief of a few here that if the cuts were done better, the company making them stands to gain? I don't believe that because the products get purchased anyways. Topps sees nothing extra due to the secondary market. You might generate more hype for your product that way but they've been doing a so so job forever and they continue to get buyers. I'm all for quality. Just don't see what their motivation would be.