Frank Thomas 1990 Topps NNOF Error... What's the story?!

BunchOBull said:

A questionable PSA 10 (looked more like an 8.5 to me) sold at auction last year for more than $25k. It was part of the Gem Mint Dimitri Young collection before he sold it all off. There are no BGS 9.5s. I feel like I may be able to get my 9 into a better holder one day. It was an very early PSA graded card and is sharp, less the top to bottom centering issues that comes standard with this card. I was lucky and paid a record low for my 9 ($875) at the bottom of the market after the spike from the discoveries. Now it would easily be a $3-5K card.

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WOW! Sell sell sell sell sell

MansGame said:

Very cool article... so the guy thinks there are at least 200 copies out there and also says he thinks they were only pulled from wax packs (versus what?). Very cool. Doesn't sound like there is a PSA 10 out there, so looks like you have the holy grail?

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I've read reports that they also came from hobby wax, but I've never seen evidence for it. Folks who have pulled it from retail wax can prove it. The 200 is a best estimate, there could in reality be as many as 500 I think, at least at the time of printing. All hyperbole though, no evidence to support this other than grading trends (which are skewed by crack outs) and availability.


edited to add:

When I was interviewed for the article, there weren't reports for hobby pulls; the reports that have been claimed have not been substantiated other than from memories.

MansGame said:

@BunchOBull - How in the world did you get your hands on a PSA 9? Is there a 9.5 or 10 out there? I bet that's worth a pretty pennie

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*Did not see there was a page 2 and answer already.

As for the PSA 10 being questionable... Pretty much every grade is questionable.

New member here. Great forum. At one time in the '90s I owned 3 Thomas 1990 NNOF cards - all 3 were graded PSA 9. Sold one about 12 years ago & still have 2. Must say, if I could get $5k for one, I'd have to let it go! I knew that they had dropped in value a few years ago and until now, didn't realize that there is a resurgence of interest in this card.

flightposite said:

*Did not see there was a page 2 and answer already.

As for the PSA 10 being questionable... Pretty much every grade is questionable.

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Well, Dmitri Young admitted in an article that he finally obtained an pretty difficult high grade card that he'd been searching for for a long time, and it came back PSA 9 (I can't remember if it was the NNOF). Since he's such a VIP with PSA, he contacted someone over there and asked them if they would bump it to a 10 as a favor, and they did. So that should tell you all you need to know about grading integrity and accuracy.

As for the NNOF, I just sold my BGS 8.5 about 3 months ago in a private sale for $2000. Didn't want to part with it but had more pressing needs. I put it on auction with a $2000 reserve and BIN of like $2500, but it didn't reach my reserve. With all the steroid talk and Frank's avoidance of all that, plus the fact that he'll be 1st ballot HOF soon, I was hoping for a significant bump in the value based on sales I've seen over the last year, but it seems to be stalling out. I'm sure another bump will come for those who are looking to cash in and can wait...unfortunately for me, I couldn't wait any longer

As for the BGS pop report, there were 21 8.5's and 3 9's at the time with about 50-60 or so total graded.

***Edit: I just checked the BGS web site in case anyone wants to know: There are no 9.5 or 10's, (7) 9's, (23) 8.5's, and (71) total graded.***

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Freedom Card Board mobile app

IMO, I think the OTHER blackless error cards are way harder to find than the Frank. Everyone knows of the Frank Thomas because it's everywhere and it's such an obvious error, so there are many people trying to capitalize on it and therefore you see them pop up on eBay quite often. I scoured the earth for some of these other ones for a long time after I read the Collector's Universe thread and found NOTHING!!! People just don't know there are other players that were effected by this, and most of those other players have more subtle flaws that collectors don't notice, so they just never get posted on eBay as blackless errors. If you look hard enough, you may eventually see one pop up somewhere as a .99 cent base card, but nobody actually lists them as the blackless error cards, so they are extremely difficult to track down. You kinda have to stumble upon them.

petMonster said:

Well, Dmitri Young admitted in an article that he finally obtained an pretty difficult high grade card that he'd been searching for for a long time, and it came back PSA 9 (I can't remember if it was the NNOF). Since he's such a VIP with PSA, he contacted someone over there and asked them if they would bump it to a 10 as a favor, and they did. So that should tell you all you need to know about grading integrity and accuracy.

As for the NNOF, I just sold my BGS 8.5 about 3 months ago in a private sale for $2000. Didn't want to part with it but had more pressing needs. I put it on auction with a $2000 reserve and BIN of like $2500, but it didn't reach my reserve. With all the steroid talk and Frank's avoidance of all that, plus the fact that he'll be 1st ballot HOF soon, I was hoping for a significant bump in the value based on sales I've seen over the last year, but it seems to be stalling out. I'm sure another bump will come for those who are looking to cash in and can wait...unfortunately for me, I couldn't wait any longer

As for the BGS pop report, there were 21 8.5's and 3 9's at the time with about 50-60 or so total graded.

***Edit: I just checked the BGS web site in case anyone wants to know: There are no 9.5 or 10's, (7) 9's, (23) 8.5's, and (71) total graded.***

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Freedom Card Board mobile app

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care to link this

jcmint said:

care to link this

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Umm, I can't seem to link that because the link doesn't hold the drop-down menu options from the pop report page, but here's a screen shot of that. You'll see the pop report for all the other graded blackless errors on there too.

jcmint said:

care to link this

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I didn't realize you were talking about the Dmitri Young article at first. I'll look for that and link it if I can find it.

So since bgs has graded 71 & I assume psa about the same (anyone want to check), would it be safe to think that about 200 of these are out there?

BBCgalaxee said:

So since bgs has graded 71 & I assume psa about the same (anyone want to check), would it be safe to think that about 200 of these are out there?

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Couple thoughts... I'm sure there is some double counting here but maybe not a ton. Also, I'd assume for everyone graded, there are probably two that aren't graded. Just my opinion.

Think there are any still in wax? I've seen boxes and boxes of these things for sale.


---
Looking for Albert Belle cards! PM me!

PSA has graded significantly more, but that includes a lot of crackouts. 200 has always been the conservative estimate, but recent trends suggest there could be significantly more, maybe 2 or 3 times that amount.

There have been recent finds, one man opened a case and pulled I believe 4 NNOFs, as well as several copies of each of the other blackless errors. All of the blackless errors I own were purchased from folks who pulled them years ago and found them by scouring old boxes after having read the thread at the PSA forums. I also purchased a NNOF that was found in a 5000 ct box of 1990 Topps Baseball, destined for the dumpster.

My thoughts on this card is that it is only worth a lot because Beckett says it is worth a lot.

How does Beckett decide which errors they list and price and which they don't?

I would love to see the DY article as well. He had a lot of PSA cards but there are far larger PSA customers that have flat out been told no on a sub bump. Go to the PSA luncheon and here the annual stories regarding being stonewalled by the grading staff.

DAVEPETERS239 said:

My thoughts on this card is that it is only worth a lot because Beckett says it is worth a lot.

How does Beckett decide which errors they list and price and which they don't?

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Even if they weren't around, this would be THE error of the last several decades.

Besides being obscenely rare, especially since it was issued during the mass production years, it happens to be on a future hall of famers rookie card, a very popular & dominant one.

On top of that, its a topps card & we all know how many followers they have.

DAVEPETERS239 said:

My thoughts on this card is that it is only worth a lot because Beckett says it is worth a lot.

How does Beckett decide which errors they list and price and which they don't?

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No not in this case. Its worth $ because it is VERY rare for the period and in much demand - thus high prices. Its quite an error being so rare combined with a rc of someone as good as Thomas was.

DAVEPETERS239 said:

My thoughts on this card is that it is only worth a lot because Beckett says it is worth a lot.

How does Beckett decide which errors they list and price and which they don't?

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On this particular card, I couldn't disagree more. Beckett set value on this long ago and then just forgot about it...same as they do with all issues more than a few years old. Frank always was and continues to be one of the most popular players of the modern era for collectors, in large part because he dominated insert sets in an era that saw such a large quantity of different sets being produced. The fact that the NNOF card was shrouded in mystery for so long (and still is, by the looks of all the questions about what boxes/cases this card made its way into), and the fact that he had such an amazing HOF career only gave this card more steam. Over the last couple years, value on this card has skyrocketed and taken on a life of its own WITHOUT encouragement from Becket price guide.

BunchOBull said:

I've read reports that they also came from hobby wax, but I've never seen evidence for it. Folks who have pulled it from retail wax can prove it. The 200 is a best estimate, there could in reality be as many as 500 I think, at least at the time of printing. All hyperbole though, no evidence to support this other than grading trends (which are skewed by crack outs) and availability.


edited to add:

When I was interviewed for the article, there weren't reports for hobby pulls; the reports that have been claimed have not been substantiated other than from memories.

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Did Topps even issue hobby vs retail boxes in 1990? Short of regular wax, rack, and jumbo packs, I don't remember there even being different boxes to indicate hobby vs retail wax.

jcmint said:

care to link this

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George_Calfas said:

I would love to see the DY article as well. He had a lot of PSA cards but there are far larger PSA customers that have flat out been told no on a sub bump. Go to the PSA luncheon and here the annual stories regarding being stonewalled by the grading staff.

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My apologies to all. After extensive digging, I finally found the DY article and it appears that I misremembered quite a few details about how it went down. Here's the link to that:

Y! SPORTS

Basically, for those who don't wish to read the entire article, here is the part I was talking about:

"All the while he collected cards. In 2009 he nabbed his favorite besides Aaron, and this one was personal. Willie Horton, former Tigers star outfielder and longtime special assistant to the team's owner, had taken Young under his wing. So when Horton's PSA 9 card popped up on eBay for $400, buying it was a no-brainer. Young sent it to PSA three times, asking that they bump it up to a 10. The third time they did."

Sounds like a crack and re-sub.