Your game-used cards might be fakes

I haven't seen this posted yet unless I missed it on the search.

FBI interview of dealer busted for selling fake game-used jerseys way back in 2009. Very interesting read consider he sold the jerseys card companies.

http://cconnect.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Wells_FBI_Interview_2009.pdf

Last week the dealer plead guilty to mail fraud and faces 20 years behind bars.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/it...o-fraud-faces-20-years-over-fake-game-used-je

Have been a bunch of stories of all crap sold off that is bad that has ended up in card companies hands.
I still contend people buy game used cards for the cards and not thinking jersey piece is worth anything. Because even if game used jersey, cut up in one inch piece isn't worth jack.
If people want game used stuff, you buy the full documented item. You don't buy tiny pieces. Cut up and glued onto a card. Card collectors buy cards, not game used stuff.

I've never really trusted game used cards. I only buy them for my player collections, and most are only a couple of bucks each. So if they're fake, it's still a cool looking card that I only spent $2 on.

This will probably offend many of you, but I think it's crazy that some collectors spend so much money for fancy patch cards, when there's no way to know if they're authentic.

I'd always have doubt in my mind that they're fake.
And I don't mean from patch fakers on eBay.
I'm talking about companies unknowingly (or knowingly) putting fake patches on their cards.
It's just too much of a risk, and I don't want to own cards that I have doubts about.

To think that they are all "REAL" game used is reasonable.
Used by the "REAL" player depicted in the card in NOT reasonable.
To think that card manufacturers care who wore the jersey is NOT reasonable and here's why.
Let's say they have 5 players from the same team in the set. That's 5 different Jersey's from the same team. Is it reasonable for any of us to think that card manufacturers will hire 5 different people to place this little piece of jersey in the card?

If card manufacturers really care that "WE" get the "REAL" game used from the "REAL" player depicted on the card, whatever money they make will not be enough to pay for security alone. Let's all face it, "ANYTHING MANMADE can be manipulated".

I have patches of Ripken from the same set / year with different shades of Orange. Is it realistic to think that they cut up more than one Jersey of Ripken and mix it up? I say no.

Like most people, I buy them because I need the card. I really sleep good at night because I don't think that the new patch card I just received was actually used / worn / touched by Cal Ripken Jr. Over the years, I probably spent over $10K for anything Ripken GU and I really can't say for sure that I can come up with one whole jersey if I sew them all together. For that kind of money, I think I can come up with a whole, authentic "REAL" game worn jersey if that's what I wanted...

It's a crap shoot. If you truly believe that EVERY piece of game used material in a game used card is REALLY "game used" then you are the type of sucker that the card companies were targeting when the concept was conceived.

Calripkenjrcollector said:

Like most people, I buy them because I need the card. I really sleep good at night because I don't think that the new patch card I just received was actually used / worn / touched by Cal Ripken Jr. Over the years, I probably spent over $10K for anything Ripken GU and I really can't say for sure that I can come up with one whole jersey if I sew them all together. For that kind of money, I think I can come up with a whole, authentic "REAL" game worn jersey if that's what I wanted...

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I suspect you could make a pillow...

Most who collect actual game used items were aware of everything Wells and his partners were doing years ago.

There were a few long detailed threads about it that laid out all the evidence for the fbi.

...and in the response to the title of this thread:

And Jerry Sandusky MIGHT ****** young boys...

Bob Loblaw said:

I suspect you could make a pillow...

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LOL! You caught me off guard with this. Good one, heh, heh.....

Yea and My autos on my cards might not be signed by the player whom was supposed to sign it or my vintage card i just bought slabbed could be trimmed or a very good fake copy. If I sat here an worried about every aspect of the hobby i would have been done years ago. I love game used and game used is what got me back to card collecting and my tiny contributions to buying game used has helped cards and the game used card market stay alive (As small as it is). I dont get why people pay hundreds or even thousands on players who havent even sniffed Major League baseball or why people would pay hundreds if not thousands on old beat up cards that the players themselves have not touched . Contrary to what people might think there is a chance that Mickey Manted did wear or touch the patch card that I own or there is a chance that Stan Musial Touched or wore that patch of his i own and to me that is as close to the player or game as you can get besided an on card auto (Which again how do we know he signed it and not his wife!). If not for game used I would be out of the Hobby and my tiny contributions with it. I say collect what fancies you and enjoy your collection and atleast appreciate what other collect instead of belittle. Also as with Vintage and autos do your home work with game used as even though its harder you do come across what jersey the piece came from which will atleast eliminate the patch fakers. Oh and I will have a huge Game used pick up thread in the comming weeks :lol: so i suggest that those whom do not like game used or think its a waste of time to stay out as they will not like my pick up thread

Bob Loblaw said:

I suspect you could make a pillow...

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Throwback! Nice!

color me shocked

These threads always invoke the thought "I knew all along that game used cards were not authentic" from collectors who claim they never bought game used cards from the beginning. Why is hindsight always 20/20...

AK11 said:

These threads always invoke the thought "I knew all along that game used cards were not authentic" from collectors who claim they never bought game used cards from the beginning. Why is hindsight always 20/20...

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No one in this thread claimed they never bought game used cards from the beginning.

Yep still don't care. I buy cards. Relic cards are cards. If I like them and can get them at a price I'm willing to pay I buy them. Did I mention I collect collectable cards?

As other have said:

If you assume every game-used item in cards is legit, you are a fool. If you assume none are legit, you are a conspiracy theorist. Like any collectible, the answer is somewhere in the middle. And like any other issue with a lot of uncertainly involved, the market as a whole generally determines the individual's reaction. Like steroids, which few people cared about until it became a big deal, as long as the market as a whole is ok with these things (albeit likely discounting prices slightly because of the potential for fakes) the market as a whole will be ok, and people will move on. If something tips the balance though, there will be outrage across the board, and the masses will switch their positions on the issues.

fyi, i reported on similar news last year, even made some videos on youtube, pm for the links
anyways, what you may not know, mastro is back in business scamming more people calling themselves legendary auctions
selling all kinds of bogus items, back and in business as usual
then, as the article hinted at, 6 jersey dealers got busted, for selling fake junk, and yes to card companies, topps and upper deck, etc
one of the dealers is also the largest dealer of game used jerseys in the country, they have the biggest booth at the national show every year
selling hundreds of game used jerseys at the show,and other game used items, hats, helmets, etc... i said years ago that they sold bogus items
i examined items and clearly saw tampering and not only that, they sold the cheap chinese jerseys as game worn items,
now with the arrest of the owner of the company for EXACTLY those charges, what i have said all along is now a proven FACT!

you have to keep a list of these scammers and never do ANY business with them, PERIOD!

here are some news links, click them to see more
http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/fbi-agent-large-numbers-of-jerseys-or-jersey-pieces-in-evidence/
http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/guilty-pleas-in-jersey-fraud-cases/
http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/fourth-dealer-pleads-guilty-to-mail-fraud-charges/

matchpenalty said:

Have been a bunch of stories of all crap sold off that is bad that has ended up in card companies hands.
I still contend people buy game used cards for the cards and not thinking jersey piece is worth anything. Because even if game used jersey, cut up in one inch piece isn't worth jack.
If people want game used stuff, you buy the full documented item. You don't buy tiny pieces. Cut up and glued onto a card. Card collectors buy cards, not game used stuff.

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Agreed. I collect 2008 UD Masterpieces patch and patch auto cards. I don't really know if these are actual GU or not, but they are so pretty (not just the patch, but the design of the card, photographs, serial numbering, etc) that I really don't care. When put together side by side with each other, it's a way prettier set than most of the goofy looking sets out there IMO. I'd have a problem if a collector was ripping out plain, one-colored patches and replacing them with 6-color pieces of patch from a cheap jersey they bought and cut up at home and then sold them to me. But as long as the patch that's in the card was cut and glued to that card and inserted into packs by the card manufacturer, I see it as a totally legitimate set worthy of collecting. People spend a fortune on low numbered regular SP cards, so what's wrong with spending a fortune on an equally low-numbered GU card?

Also, as a slight side note...there's obviously a huge difference in the eyes of collectors between manufacturer issued products versus collector obtained/created authentic products. Manufacturer issued products always seem to have a higher demand. A 1993 SP Jeter buyback auto would fetch crazy amounts of money on an auction site, whereas a 1993 SP Jeter RC with an auto obtained at a game or at a show by some regular collector would not command nearly as much (even if it was authenticated). There's something about manufacturer issued products that I think collectors view as more legitimate or "real". So back to the GU stuff...if a collector was to take a boring patch card and spruce it up at home by cutting a nicer piece of patch from an no-joke, totally for-real, authentic GU jersey patch that he obtained from a player, we would probably still want nothing to do with it. But if Upper Deck created "GU" patch cards in the factory and then told us they were not actually GU memorabilia, I bet there would still be a strong market for those cards (as long as they slapped low serial numbers on them or something).

I sold off 99% of my GU a LONG time ago.

I think cards are better without GU and/or autos anyway, for one GU/autos make cards "too complicated". Give me an auto'd baseball over an auto'd card any day.