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Top 15 All-Time in MLB history...STARTING PITCHER

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crowhop

New member
Aug 8, 2008
978
0
Bedford Falls
1. Lefty Grove
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.


Ha...good luck with this one. There isn't a clear #1, so this will be more speculation than anything. So please provide something (stats, etc) that leads you to think your guy is worthy.

I think Lefty is #1. His ERA+ of 148 is second all-time. Not only was he dominant, but he was supremely dominant when compared to his peers. The .680 Win % is pretty awesome too.


Oh, btw, #1 in all-time ERA+ is Pedro Martinez at 154. Chew on that one for a while.
 

crowhop

New member
Aug 8, 2008
978
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Bedford Falls
P_Manning 18 said:
Greg Maddux

He and Pedro may just be the best 2 pitchers I have ever seen.
Throw in Randy Johnson and unless you are 75, probably so.
laugh.gif



What to do with Roger Clemens?
He was effectively done in Boston in 1996. He could have hung around to get to 200 Wins and a HOF bid at some point. But he goes to the Blue Jays and runs into a guy named Brian Gerard McNamee and wins two CYs with two of the greatest season's we've ever seen. Then he goes to the Yankees and wins another CY. Then to Houston and another. If you divide his career up like that, he can't make the list. But how do we know Pedro Martinez didn't use? Or Greg Maddux? Or Randy Johnson? We don't.
 

crowhop

New member
Aug 8, 2008
978
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Bedford Falls
G $MONEY$ said:
1 Cy Young- 511 Wins, untouchable
2 Walter Johnson
3 Christy Mathewson
4 Nolan Ryan
5 Warren Spahn
Has there ever been a more overrated player in the history of baseball than Nolan Ryan?
 

trevordchi

Active member
Aug 9, 2008
2,623
2
crowhop said:
G $MONEY$ said:
1 Cy Young- 511 Wins, untouchable
2 Walter Johnson
3 Christy Mathewson
4 Nolan Ryan
5 Warren Spahn
Has there ever been a more overrated player in the history of baseball than Nolan Ryan?

Yep, Derek Jeter comes to mind.
 

jay1065

New member
Aug 7, 2008
2,220
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Lowell, MA
Wow. Now this is a tough one.

1. Lefty Grove (same as crowhp - ERA+ and W%)
2. Cy Young (ERA+ 138 / W% 618 / 511 wins)
3. Christy Mathewson (ERA+ 135 / W% 665 / 844 BB)
4. Pedro Martinez (ERA+ 154 / W% 684 / 3117 K)
5. Walter Johnson (ERA+ 147 / W% 599) / 3509 SO)
6. Sandy Koufax (ERA+ 131 / W% 655)
7. Greg Maddux (ERA+ 132 / W% 610 / 3371 K)
8. Smokey Joe Wood (ERA+ 146 / W% 672)
9. Nolan Ryan (5714 K)
10. Deacon Phillippe (W% 634 / 363 BB)


The only reason I placed Joe Wood at #8, is that his pitching career was cut short. I can only imagine what his numbers would have been.

EDIT 1,2,3: spelling
 

aw00d05

New member
Dec 18, 2008
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I think Nolan Ryan should be #1, if he played on the Yankees he would've won 450 atleast.
 

crowhop

New member
Aug 8, 2008
978
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Bedford Falls
aw00d05 said:
I think Nolan Ryan should be #1, if he played on the Yankees he would've won 450 atleast.
His lifetime ERA+ is 134th among pitchers with 250+ decisions.


Your quote should actually be:

If Ryan hadn't given up so many runs, he would've won 450.
 

Mozzie22

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
1,648
24
Nolan Ryan was overrated but still an all time great.
Cy Young is an all time great but clearly not as good as Johnson or Mathewson. Bob Gibson should definitely be on the list. Now, for the fire starter: Sandy Koufax is incredibly overrated. He did have 5 unbelievable years but he had 5 average years as well. He is Dwight Gooden in reverse. Koufax is so highly regarded because of the time he played, the city he played, and because of his religion.
 

crowhop

New member
Aug 8, 2008
978
0
Bedford Falls
MOFNY said:
martincp said:
Bob Gibson & Sandy Koufax should be in the mix
No doubt! Gibson still has the lowest ERA in a season with 300+ IP. That is a record that will never be broken.
Pedro Martinez 2000 ERA+ 291
Bob Gibson 1968 ERA+ 258

Just comparing seasons, Pedro was better by a fairly substantial margin.
 

scotty21690

New member
Aug 7, 2008
16,150
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Ah crap, this is beyond tough.


1. Lefty Grove
2. Walter Johnson
3. Christy Mathewson
4. Cy Young
5. Pete Alexander
6. Carl Hubbell
7. Bob Feller
8. Tom Seaver
9. Bob Gibson
10. Warren Spahn


I made my list without active players, made it a little easier
 

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