Razor Washington/Lincoln Dual - Thoughts

muchuckwagon · Mar 2, 2009

Many people were surprised by the $16k ending price on the Razor Washington/Lincoln dual autograph. The first thought by many is the economy is to blame. While it is impossible to argue the economy had some impact...I don't think that was the main reason.

This message board has been flooded with Razor posts for what seems like ages. Everyone on the FCB knows the Razor name all to well. However, the same is NOT true for the average collector....or even dealers for that matter.

Let me be clear...this post is not intended to be a knock against Razor, just a simple observation. I have talked to some collectors and dealers (sizable) not affiliated with the FCB....you would be surprised how little name recognition exists and what little information dealers can offer about Razor products. Outside of the prospecting world, the Razor brand is foreign to collectors.

Think about it...what if you were not a member of the FCB, would you have known much at all about the Razor products? Remember, this is a very small community and not reflective of the overall hobby.

At the end of the day, I am not surprised by the low ending price in the dual autograph or some of the offers received on the cards from the group break by other members of the FCB.

With this in mind, do you think the card would have sold for more if it was part of a Topps product?

Jaypers · Mar 2, 2009

What's Razor?

DaleMurphyCollector · Mar 2, 2009

Jaypers said:
What's Razor?

Exactly

Jays_Cards · Mar 2, 2009

I have felt from the beginning that this would be the case with the Oval Office series. While I think it was a great idea, very few people outside of prospecting and FCB know much about Razor, and I feel that the ending prices of these presidential cut autos reflect that. I truly believe that if Topps had produced this card, it would have ended for more than $25K. I am in no way trying to base Razor for what they have done, but this is why I stayed away from the Oval Office breaks like the plague.

P_Manning 18 · Mar 2, 2009

Jaypers said:
What's Razor?

It's a flavor of Kool-Aid.

Penno · Mar 2, 2009

I think it might have got to 20k, but not much higher. There would have been a bit more exposure and bidding war might have pushed it up. I also think if both of the cuts were on one side it would have went for more, but thats just a guess.

Also, I think the economy might have something to do with some of the lower end cards, but if someone has a free 16k laying around for a card, its hard to believe the the economy hit them that hard.

beefycheddar · Mar 2, 2009

Penno said:
Also, I think the economy might have something to do with some of the lower end cards, but if someone has a free 16k laying around for a card, its hard to believe the the economy hit them that hard.

But if it was a good economy probably more would have a free 16K lying around.

Philip J. Fry · Mar 2, 2009

Maybe the story behind the pull killed the excitement. I mean, when a student drops $2k-$2500 on a pack and then the auction claims he's selling to pay bills and such, that tends to stick in the minds of bidders as well. Would I spend $25K on the card if I had the money? You bet. Would I buy it from the student? Hell no.

imac220 · Mar 2, 2009

I WISH I HAD THAT CARD :!:

boomo · Mar 2, 2009

what did that stupid moron pay beckett to list that card for him?

matfanofold · Mar 2, 2009

Philip J. Fry said:
Maybe the story behind the pull killed the excitement. I mean, when a student drops $2k-$2500 on a pack and then the auction claims he's selling to pay bills and such, that tends to stick in the minds of bidders as well. Would I spend $25K on the card if I had the money? You bet. Would I buy it from the student? Hell no.

I have to be honest here, I do not think that even remotely effected the outcome.

schmidtfan20 · Mar 2, 2009

I feel bad for the guy who jumped the gun and handed over 7000 bucks for the Grant! OUCH

potvin48 · Mar 2, 2009

I too was surprised at the low sell price. I was thinking $20k easily, more towards $25k...Good point in the OP about this being a Razor product. I'd have held on to it for a bit, let everyone know it's been pulled, and put it up for auction in a couple months. I wonder how many people who would liked to have bid never even knew it was pulled. I bet it ends back up on ebay, maybe in a year (might be smart to wait until the next presidential election in 2012).

Of course, I'm not sure really what I would have done if I pulled it, but that's what I think I would have done.

I am wondering though why a college student would even consider dropping $2k on 1 box/pack/card. Sure, he got lucky this time, but this is not the norm by any means.

muchuckwagon · Mar 2, 2009

If it was me, I would have listed the card with a $99,999.99 BIN/BO to get a feel for the market and then tried to sell the card at the National this summer.

Kutzy · Mar 2, 2009

To be honest, this dosent speak well for Razor and their future high end endevours. If your most high end product, top of the line, best of the best only has a max upside of 6 times your money, whats the point of buying the product. If you were to buy a box of Exquisite and pulled a 1/1 Michael Jordan Auto patch, 1/1 Adrian Peterson auto rookie patch, 1/1 Griffey/Ripken/Jeter triple auto 1/1 your profit potential is MUCH higher than 6 times your box price. Having this card sold for only $15k or roughly 6 times the $2500/pack price is not very good for them.

Wes · Mar 2, 2009

It was a terrible idea to list that auction style - obviously only one bidder was willing to go over 16k, why not take offers? Also screw listing it with beckett, 25%!?!?

kentuckyderby · Mar 2, 2009

Cannot use $2500 as the price since it was $1500 RP

I would say you would have to use some # in between since many of the average joes weren't able to get in at 1500

However, I do agree that if you got the best of the best from a product you would expect more than 6-10x the price of the product

I would love to know how many packs have been opened. I know between 8-10 here on FCB.

I wonder if waiting until the National to sell the big pull would have made a differnece up or down

Also I wonder if an auction house would have been a better route

Bottom line is that if you compare the completed listings, the Grant was a stretch now

wideright · Mar 2, 2009

Probably has no bearing on the end price, but I think they should have used the cut from the single in the dual card. Even though it's cut off slightly, the single cut is more complete, while the cut in the dual appears to be washed out or damaged more and less readable.

I agree mu, I think a little (or a lot) more marketing was in order for such a high end set. Obviously we'll have no idea how much Razor spent, but if so many collectors and card shop owners outside of FCB know very little about them, perhaps a little to much reliance on web marketing was used, and more traditional methods should've been used.

drw2007 · Mar 2, 2009

He sold a George Washington auto and a Lincoln auto for not even a years worth of school at a state university.

brouthercard · Mar 2, 2009

Am I the only one who thinks that
$16,000 is still WAY TOO MUCH to pay for any cut autograph of any president in any combination of a manufactured card?

That student should be F@##@%% glad he got that much money through Beckett, if he tried to sell it himself, he'd probably still be stuck with it.

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Razor Washington/Lincoln Dual - Thoughts

If Topps produced the Washington/Lincoln autograph:

Card sells for less due to poor marketing of product by Topps.

Economy is bad, it would have still ended around $16k.

Topps brand name alone results in a sale of at least $20k.

Topps brand name and marketing results in sale of $30k or more.

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