Does Jim Rice really think...

...that Fenway really "stole" Home Runs from him?

Just found this little tidbit on the web, from a long ago Boston GLobe Article.

- Rice says the Green Monster cost him 10 home runs a season, maybe 20. ``Those are the number of line drives that I hit that went off the Wall and would have been home runs in other parks,'' Rice said. ``I don't remember the Wall giving me any.''

Rice played 15 full seasons for the Sox and hit 382 home runs. Give him another 10 a year, 150 in all, and he would have 532, which would end any debate about whether he belongs in the Hall of Fame. Give him 20 more a year, or 300, and he'd rank third on the career list.

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Boston.com / Sports / New Fenway



Jim Rice's Career Stats


Away - 1048 Games / 166 Doubles / 174 Home Runs
Fenway - 1041 Games / 207 Doubles / 208 Home Runs


It doesn't really seem like Fenway hurt Jim Rice. Over his career he only had 34 more Home Runs, and 41 more doubles when playing in Fenway. Fenway seemed to help him more than it hurt him.

vwnut13, your argument makes no sense.
The Green Monster is legendary for turning normal home runs into doubles.
You act like Rice is the only player to say he was robbed of homers, when hundreds of players have said that.
You say it looks like the Green Monster actually helped Rice because he has a few more career homers at home, but in actuality, most players hit more homers at home. (Ever hear of the home field advantage?)

Austin said:

vwnut13, your argument makes no sense.
The Green Monster is legendary for turning normal home runs into doubles.
You act like Rice is the only player to say he was robbed of homers, when hundreds of players have said that.
You say it looks like the Green Monster actually helped Rice because he has a few more career homers at home, but in actuality, most players hit more homers at home. (Ever hear of the home field advantage?)

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Agreed.

However I do not entirely agree with what Rice says it may have cost him. Perhaps another 3 or 5 a year, maybe upwards of 10 on a occasional year. All in all, I can see the Monster costing him 50 - 75 dingers over the long haul. But if we start to play the 'what if' game, the Hall would be filled with 'should have been' players.

Austin said:

vwnut13, your argument makes no sense.
The Green Monster is legendary for turning normal home runs into doubles.
You act like Rice is the only player to say he was robbed of homers, when hundreds of players have said that.
You say it looks like the Green Monster actually helped Rice because he has a few more career homers at home, but in actuality, most players hit more homers at home. (Ever hear of the home field advantage?)

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I was pretty sure that it was pretty well known that right down the LF line Fenway turns a lot of pop outs in other stadiums into HRs in Fenway.

ESPN's Sports Science: Fenway Park - YouTube


Baseball Reference Lists locations of where 273 of Rice's 382 Career HR went.

Left Field: 162
Left Center: 12
CenterField: 63
Right Center: 4
Right Field: 12


Sure, Fenway may have taken a few HR away in Left Center, but he Baseball Reference lists 12 Left Center HRs out of nearly 72% of his career HRs. It clearly wasn't only in Fenway that he had trouble hitting Home Runs to Left Center.


His Career Home and Away Splits?

Home: 1048 Games, 4075 AB, 1304 H, 207 2B, 44 3B, 208 HR, .320 BA, .920 OPS, .340 BABIP
Away: 1041 Games, 4150 AB, 1148 H, 174 2B, 35 3B, 174 HR, .277 BA, .789 OPS, .296 BABIP

Sorry, but those are some pretty obvious Home/Away Splits. In fewer ABs he had more singles, doubles,triples, and home runs at Fenway.

I challenge you to find another HOFer who has such a dramatic advantage in (every single offensive category) while playing at a single home ballpark.



And Rice says he would have hit 300 more HR if it wasn't for Fenway? :lol:

The left field wall in Boston is a whopping 315.......Wrigley is 355. How much drop occurs in those 40 feet?

Maybe if they were not playing on a softball field the wall would not have to be so high.

George_Calfas said:

The left field wall in Boston is a whopping 315.......Wrigley is 355. How much drop occurs in those 40 feet?

Maybe if they were not playing on a softball field the wall would not have to be so high.

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Maybe my memory is not what it use to be, but in this particular case I am not sure the numbers you mention matter all that much. I can recall Rice pounding line drives off the upper part of the monster quite regularly. Not the sort of average angular HR one could use typical numbers to calculate drop, but certainly mashed hard enough to have cleared the fences in many other stadiums.

matfanofold said:

Maybe my memory is not what it use to be, but in this particular case I am not sure the numbers you mention matter all that much. I can recall Rice pounding line drives off the upper part of the monster quite regularly. Not the sort of average angular HR one could use typical numbers to calculate drop, but certainly mashed hard enough to have cleared the fences in many other stadiums.

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Then why did he not hit more HRs on the road? 81 games H/A, if the Monster prevented 10+ a year that number likely would be seen in his away dingers, but it does not.

Yes the monster prevented some but it also made hits out of warning track outs.

For the record I am not anti-Rice just being a fly in the ointment.

I challenge you to find another HOFer who has such a dramatic advantage in (every single offensive category) while playing at a single home ballpark.

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Found one myself. Another player who played his entire career for one team.

Home: 954 Games, 3554 AB, 1120 H, 246 2B, 46 3B, 145 HR, .315 BA, .928 OPS, .312 BABIP
Away:. 911 Games, 3539 AB, 922 H, 135 2B, 43 3B, 78 HR, .261 BA, .716 OPS, .269 BABIP


Those stats are from none other than Bobby Doerr. Seems Fenway really hurt him too.

George_Calfas said:

Then why did he not hit more HRs on the road? 81 games H/A, if the Monster prevented 10+ a year that number likely would be seen in his away dingers, but it does not.

Yes the monster prevented some but it also made hits out of warning track outs.

For the record I am not anti-Rice just being a fly in the ointment.

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Mind you I agree his 10 HR's a year assessment was pretty crazy, but to answer this as it pertains to the original quote, I have no idea why his H/A splits are the way they are. Only that I do know, from watching him play, that he indeed would have had a few more dingers a year had it not ben for the Monster. The guy could hit lasers off the wall that clearly would have been HR's in many other places, and thus is why I said the average distance/drop rate would be meaningless for this assessment as we are only talking about specific types of line drive shots.

Old Jim is forgetting all the pitches he got jammed on that wouldn't have even made the warning track in other parks yet went for a Green Monster double. It goes both ways. I think VWs vid sums it up pretty well- left half is great for HRs right half gets a bit tougher.

Rice is for the kitchen not the hall

tramers said:

Rice is for the kitchen not the hall

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That's what he told his wife

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That sports science video makes this a simple conversation. Rice ha no grounds for that assumption.

I had to look... Albert Belle played 12 seasons and hit 381 HRs, one less that Rice in 15 seasons.


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Maybe Rice should have concentrated more on not phoning it in his last three seasons and his numbers would have looked better.

Rice was well-known as a powerful line drive hitter, not as a fly ball hitter.

To this end what he says makes a lot of sense.

If you have to nitpick to get into the hall, you shouldn't be in.

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joeya2001 said:

If you have to nitpick to get into the hall, you shouldn't be in.

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+1000!! +1,000,000!! I so totally agree. If you have to "campaign" or "justify", there shouldn't even be a question. If in 5 years after you retire, and it is not fully recognized that you had a HOF career, then you probably shouldn't be in.

DaClyde said:

Maybe Rice should have concentrated more on not phoning it in his last three seasons and his numbers would have looked better.

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What an ignorant statement.
Rice played through a serious knee injury his last few seasons. Surgery to correct the injury before the 1988 season was not completely successful, so Rice was forced to hobble through the pain, sapping much of his power.

Rice had come in 3rd in MVP voting in 1986. Then he suffered through serious injuries.
He didn't just decide to "phone it in" at age 34.

DaClyde said:

Maybe Rice should have concentrated more on not phoning it in his last three seasons and his numbers would have looked better.

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So good.


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