Lets discuss Joey Votto

You all know I'm a Reds fan. Votto is awesome and I'm a big fan, but other Reds fans, Reds announcers, and baseball fans truly piss me off when it comes to Votto.

He's a special player and I'm very happy he plays for the Reds, but he's human. As sacrilege as it is to say around Reds fans, Joey makes mistakes. (GASP)

Some of you follow me on Twitter and have seen some of what I say and there are actually other Reds fans who agree with me. Any time Joey makes a mistake, Reds fans and Thom Brennaman especially, people pass it off as no big deal. If Joey makes an error, they want to cause physical harm to the official scorekeeper because if the infallible Joey Votto couldn't field the ball, Christ himself wouldn't have a chance!

It's just ridiculous. As I said, I'm as big a Votto fan as any other Reds fan, but the guy dogs it 99% of the time. On ground balls, he runs at about 1/1,000 speed. Infielders have made bobbles and still thrown him out by miles because he had taken a whopping 3 steps out of the batter's box. He could outrun close to half of the double plays he hits into if he would actually make an effort.

Look, every player makes mistakes and I get that. I think I overcompensate about Votto because 99% of fans are willing to overlook his mistakes. I don't understand why he can't get called out like anyone else.

I'll just leave it at that and see what everyone has to say. Again, I really am a big fan and he is a great player, I just think that he should be treated like everyone else.

Votto came off as a real punk during the roadtrip to Washington, spiking his bat after a strikeout, glaring at umpires, throwing things in the dugout...

Todd44 said:

Votto came off as a real punk during the roadtrip to Washington, spiking his bat after a strikeout, glaring at umpires, throwing things in the dugout...

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Wow, he cares about his craft and hates losing. What a punk.

The same way I feel about Cano.

muskiesfan said:

I just think that he should be treated like everyone else.

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But Votto is not like everyone else. He suffers from a severe anxiety disorder.
I think the media and fans think, at least subconsciously, that if they are negative towards him, he will get depressed and slump horribly.
It's not fair for other players, but I think that's why the local media and Reds fans treat him that way.

sportscardtheory said:

Wow, he cares about his craft and hates losing. What a punk.

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So doing those things means he hates losing?

Im a big Votto fan (see signature), he is playing like he knows if he plays too hard, he going to have another injury to himself. The National League pitchers (mgrs.) spent the first month (plus spring training and the whole 2012 season) pitching around him that now when they do pitch to him, he either gets a single/homerun or whiffs. He doesn't feel as he's getting bat support behind him (Bruce-Frazier) to advance him on the basepath. He has a very high expectation level from Dusty Baker, coaches, players, owners, media and fans. That's a lot of pressure to put on one player.

As for Thom Brenneman, he doesn't run Votto into the ground because Votto has 8 1/2 seasons left with the Reds, Brenneman needs Votto around to sell the advertisments, interviews and increase viewership. If Votto was in year 10 of his agreement, Thom would be way more vocal about his performance.

Fordman

Austin said:

But Votto is not like everyone else. He suffers from a severe anxiety disorder.
I think the media and fans think, at least subconsciously, that if they are negative towards him, he will get depressed and slump horribly.
It's not fair for other players, but I think that's why the local media and Reds fans treat him that way.

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An anxiety disorder doesn't make you lazy. I cannot comment on Votto's hustle b/c I don't watch many Reds games but I will take the OP's word on it since he's a die-hard Reds fan.

In terms of hustle/concentration, we have a slightly similar problem with Adam Jones. It's not near as often as the OP says happens with Votto, but the few times it has happened, Adam Jones has called himself out on it and stepped it up later. I mean it's great you call yourself out Mr. Jones, but how about you just stop doing it? The first couple times is passable, but eventually it just gets old.

I love Adam Jones too and I'm thankful he's an Oriole but if he wants to be the true leader he desires, he needs to cut this crap out.

markakis8 said:

An anxiety disorder doesn't make you lazy. I cannot comment on Votto's hustle b/c I don't watch many Reds games but I will take the OP's word on it since he's a die-hard Reds fan.

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I never wrote that his anxiety causes Votto to be lazy.
The subject of Muskiesfan's thread is why is Votto treated differently than other Reds' players when he's lazy or makes miscues.

I wrote, that because he has an anxiety disorder, the local media and fans treat him with kid gloves so he doesn't overreact, get depressed and go into a major slump.

cards01fan said:

So doing those things means he hates losing?

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Does he do it up 4 runs in the 9th?

Austin said:

I never wrote that his anxiety causes Votto to be lazy.
The subject of Muskiesfan's thread is why is Votto treated differently than other Reds' players when he's lazy or makes miscues.

I wrote, that because he has an anxiety disorder, the local media and fans treat him with kid gloves so he doesn't overreact, get depressed and go into a major slump.

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Absolutely correct.

Votto (big fan) is cut from the same cloth as Greinke, Khalil Greene, Dontrelle Willis, Justin Duchscherer, Hong Chih-Kuo, etc... (those diagnosed with social anxiety disorders).

On the surface, they may seem like an aloof space cadet, but you can never truly know what afflictions a person is dealing with inside their head.

Hong-Chih Kuo and 10 MLB Players Who've Hit the DL for Mental Health Reasons

There was an article about Votto (I believe in SI, but it may have been ESPN) a little while back that detailed the effort and preparation that he puts into the game. It is possible based on his mental condition and the like that his responses to certain situations look bad, but they are simply part of the package of who he is. His mentality is likely a major component in the way he prepares (which is likely a factor in his performance, which is pretty amazing) and also affects other aspects of his game. The announcers may give him a bit more of a pass than other players (as you never hear them considering whether or not to criticize someone else) but with Votto for the most part I think his play earns him a pass on some level.

From watching the Reds several times a year, and reading articles written by their beat writers, and posts from their fans, and seeing how some of their players act on the field in recent years.........I'm pretty sure if I was a fan of the team I would have a short fuse when it came to things I disliked happening.

I mean, a player used his spikes, kicking another player in the head, which could have literally been fatal to him, and DID end his career. And virtually zero was done to him. I'll always find that absurd.

I appreciate everyone's responses.

My initial thought, when it comes to broadcasters and media, was that it all had to do with his disorder. I'm not asking for people to chew his ass or totally destroy him, but what's wrong with simply saying, "Joey should have had that" or "It wouldn't kill Joey to hustle down the line". I don't find either of those comments overly critical at all.

As for fans, I believe his play is what has given him a pass with them, but it's still okay to constructively criticize. As I said, I love Votto and don't want to see him anywhere else. I just wish that he would hustle more. I know it's common for superstars/stars to loaf on grounders, but I don't like it when anyone does it. That's not strictly a Votto only thing.

Top- I honestly did not think of it that way. Maybe his mental condition is what causes him to reacts in some of the ways that bug me. I don't know why I didn't think of that, but thank you for bringing that to my attention. I definitely attributed his potentially frail ego to the condition, but I was too short sighted to think it could be a potential reasoning for reactions that I perceive as lazy.

Carl- That is definitely a part of what I was going for. As THE face of the team and appointed leader, don't be lazy of half-ass, EVER. You and I are on the same page there.

Muskie remember what the media and poser fans did to jr Griffey. I think the same is going on here with Votto. It makes me sick as a true reds fan. These people don't know what they have. The dbacks can have thom back wish he'd take the cowboy with him. As for the rest of the media I think they are kinda salty Cincinnati is the biggest market they can get hired in. Oh let's not forget tony Perez stint as mrg same thing...

sportscardtheory said:

Does he do it up 4 runs in the 9th?

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Idk but throwing a bat or helmet does not mean you hate losing. It just means you have no self control.

cards01fan said:

Idk but throwing a bat or helmet does not mean you hate losing. It just means you have no self control.

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Throwing a bat or helmet isn't new in the game of baseball. It has happened probably hundreds of thousands of times. It's a sport. Players take it seriously. That along with the fact he may have some sort of emotional problems let's me see it objectively and say "big deal".

votto is a badass

There are plenty of players who take the game very seriously -- as seriously as Votto, I'm sure -- who don't act like a child when things don't go their way. And what struck me about Votto was the number of outbursts and bad behavior over a four-game stretch. It wasn't just one helmet spike; it was clearly a trend, and I was kind of shocked, because I hadn't known he was like that before.

sportscardtheory said:

Throwing a bat or helmet isn't new in the game of baseball. It has happened probably hundreds of thousands of times. It's a sport. Players take it seriously. That along with the fact he may have some sort of emotional problems let's me see it objectively and say "big deal".

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I don't care about his attitude, as long as he produces.

What I care more about is him getting a decent on-card autograph one of these days. One of the best players in the game should have something more than stickers over the past five years.